Poll: what do you think of the Astros’ punishment?

[backwardsk]

10 hours ago, atomic said:

Most everyone on the Orioles was.  Canseco said it was 80 percent and he was the one guy I would believe.

To be fair, if Canseco saw a 25 man roster and knew 14 guys were doping, do you think he could do the math or just say it’s 80%?

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

To be fair, if Canseco saw a 25 man roster and knew 14 guys were doping, do you think he could do the math or just say it’s 80%?

Canseco had every reason to estimate on the high side, as he was trying to excuse his own behavior with the classic “everyone else was doing it” excuse.     Well, it turns out a lot of players were doing it, and he was far from the only one. But I do think he was an early adapter and that there were plenty of guys who weren’t using steroids.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Canseco had every reason to estimate on the high side, as he was trying to excuse his own behavior with the classic “everyone else was doing it” excuse.     Well, it turns out a lot of players were doing it, and he was far from the only one. But I do think he was an early adapter and that there were plenty of guys who weren’t using steroids.

Guys were using decades before Conseco showed up.

[atomic]

27 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Canseco had every reason to estimate on the high side, as he was trying to excuse his own behavior with the classic “everyone else was doing it” excuse.     Well, it turns out a lot of players were doing it, and he was far from the only one. But I do think he was an early adapter and that there were plenty of guys who weren’t using steroids.

That isn't true at all. Canseco was always honest about steroid use way before anyone became concerned about it.  He did not try anto d excuse anything.  Like I said he is the most believable person in the steroids. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Guys were using decades before Conseco showed up.

I know that.    But I believe it was a pretty small percentage in the pre-Canseco period and became much more prevalent over the course of his career.   So, I still consider him an early adapter in that sense.   

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I know that.    But I believe it was a pretty small percentage in the pre-Canseco period and became much more prevalent over the course of his career.   So, I still consider him an early adapter in that sense.   

Tom House's comments don't make it sound like a small percentage.

[Frobby]

55 minutes ago, atomic said:

That isn't true at all. Canseco was always honest about steroid use way before anyone became concerned about it.  He did not try anto d excuse anything.  Like I said he is the most believable person in the steroids. 

Not really.    So far as I know, Canseco never once admitted to using steroids until 2005, four years after he retired and in the process of trying to sell a book.    Caminiti had admitted his steroid use in 2002, in a Sports Illustrated article.    

[atomic]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Not really.    So far as I know, Canseco never once admitted to using steroids until 2005, four years after he retired and in the process of trying to sell a book.    Caminiti had admitted his steroid use in 2002, in a Sports Illustrated article.    

Canseco bragged about walking past players working out with weights in team training room and laughing at them for wasting their time when they could just be taking steroids. I  hardly think he ever tried to make himself look less bad by saying other people were using too. And he actually named names of players on the Athletic's who were also using steroids who all denied it.  

 

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Tom House's comments don't make it sound like a small percentage.

He took back some of what he said specifically about steroids.   

Former major-league pitcher Tom House now says he misspoke when he estimated a half-dozen pitchers on every team experimented with steroids or human growth hormone in the 1960s and 1970s. House said he meant to say those players used amphetamines.``It was my fault. Maybe I wasn't saying what I thought I was saying,'' he told the Associated Press on Thursday, referring to the interview that appeared in Tuesday's San Francisco Chronicle.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2005-05-04-0505040195-story,amp.html

He certainly did state that certain players including himself tried steroids.    

It remains my impression that steroid use became far more common during the period in which Canseco played, and that he was at the start of that wave.    
 

[atomic]

Interesting that Rob Dibble claimed Altuve was on steroids in 2016:

https://www.crawfishboxes.com/2016/7/13/12170736/rob-dibble-says-altuve-cheats-smh

Wouldn't surprise me if guys like Bregman and Altuve were on the juice.   If you are cheating with signs why stop there. 

[Number5]

21 minutes ago, atomic said:

Canseco bragged about walking past players working out with weights in team training room and laughing at them for wasting their time when they could just be taking steroids. I  hardly think he ever tried to make himself look less bad by saying other people were using too. And he actually named names of players on the Athletic's who were also using steroids who all denied it.  

 

So he was laughing at the guys working out without using steroids?  They must have been in the 10%.

[atomic]

 

51 minutes ago, Number5 said:

So he was laughing at the guys working out without using steroids?  They must have been in the 10%.

Yeah the 3 guys on the team he wasn't shooting up with steroids in the locker room.  You know his teammates like Mark Mcguire, Rafael Paleirmo, Jason Giambi. And one of the guys he probably was laughing at was Mike Bordick who was using later when he got to the Orioles. 

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, atomic said:

 

Yeah the 3 guys on the team he wasn't shooting up with steroids in the locker room.  You know his teammates like Mark Mcguire, Rafael Paleirmo, Jason Giambi. And one of the guys he probably was laughing at was Mike Bordick who was using later when he got to the Orioles. 

Has there ever been a suggestion that Mike Bordick used steroids?    I haven’t heard that before.   

On the one hand, I think most of the specific players Canseco called out for using steroids ultimately admitted it after vehemently denying it at first, or later tested positive for steroids.     And on the other hand, I think 85% is a number he pulled out of his ass and would have no real way of knowing.    
 

[atomic]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Has there ever been a suggestion that Mike Bordick used steroids?    I haven’t heard that before.   

On the one hand, I think most of the specific players Canseco called out for using steroids ultimately admitted it after vehemently denying it at first, or later tested positive for steroids.     And on the other hand, I think 85% is a number he pulled out of his ass and would have no real way of knowing.    
 

I suggested it as he got considerably larger one off-season with the Orioles. And before he turned 32 he had less power than Rich Dauer.  Then all of sudden his power numbers go up.  And he hits 20 at age 35.  

[weams]

 

Papi says Fiers is a snitch.