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What Do the Orioles See in Shawn Armstrong?

mdbdotcom

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mdbdotcom Hangout Grand Counsel

mdbdotcom

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He looks like a big nothing to me. I don't see why he's still on the team. He would have been one of my picks to DFA in December. Am I missing something? Is there any reason for him to still be on the roster other than the overall lack of big league pitching talent on the team?

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Frobby
Frobby

Sometimes I wonder if you say these things because you believe them, or just to be provocative. Armstong and Givens both debuted in 2015.   Armstrong has a career 1.3 rWAR and 4.34 ERA.    His ER

interloper
interloper

This is where we really miss Luke, who could tell us about Armstrong's repertoire, what the Orioles may see, and the potential upside. You know - an actual answer to the OP's very fair question. Inste

Barnaby Graves
Barnaby Graves

Look at the passion in this thread, that's why Shawn Armstrong is here.  Look at the time real human beings are expending discussing the baseball career of Shawn Armstrong.  Now I'm doing it too.  It'

ChosenOne21 Major Leaguer Rising Star

ChosenOne21

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I dunno, he was decent for a while last year after we acquired him. Numbers look worse because he was hellacious in a Mariners uniform. I doubt he's anything more than a decent middle reliever and maybe not even that.

The one I scratch my head about is Dwight Smith Jr. Like, he's a below replacement level outfielder who is what he is. Plus with the crowded outfield picture, how is he still here? He'd better not take at-bats from Hays, Santander, Mancini and Mountcastle

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FuManchu AA

FuManchu

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He's making the minimum and is just a seat warmer until the team around is better. I get the old "if ifs and buts" thing, but he had 4 outings with the Orioles where he gave up a total of 14 ERs - the other 50 innings here were collectively pitched to a 3.06 ERA. I don't know if its flukish or not, but he got LHB out pretty regularly, which can be interesting for a RHP.

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canonfaz All-Star

canonfaz

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A less horrible Mike Wright, but that's not saying much. 

I think he has value in the bullpen this year, because he has a semi-proven track record of getting people out at this level, but it's very unlikely he's in the bullpen when we are relevant again. 

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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18 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I dunno, he was decent for a while last year after we acquired him. Numbers look worse because he was hellacious in a Mariners uniform. I doubt he's anything more than a decent middle reliever and maybe not even that.

The one I scratch my head about is Dwight Smith Jr. Like, he's a below replacement level outfielder who is what he is. Plus with the crowded outfield picture, how is he still here? He'd better not take at-bats from Hays, Santander, Mancini and Mountcastle

I think Smith is still on the roster because:

1) Stewart is injured and Mountcastle probably begins the season in the minors

2) He has an option left and can play the outfield at AAA when optioned.

When Mountcastle is called up Smith is likely sent down if he is not DFA for roster space before that.

 

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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1 hour ago, weams said:

Armstrong is probably better than Givens. But neither are too good. 

Sometimes I wonder if you say these things because you believe them, or just to be provocative.

Armstong and Givens both debuted in 2015.   Armstrong has a career 1.3 rWAR and 4.34 ERA.    His ERA was 5.74 last year.  Before he was out of options, he was shuttled back and forth to the minors regularly, and accordingly, he has only amassed 116 innings in the big leagues.   

Givens has been a mainstay of the Orioles’ bullpen since his call-up in 2015, never returning to the minors.    He’s amassed 6.4 rWAR and a 3.40 ERA in 323 big league innings.   His 4.57 ERA last year was the worst of his career, but still more than a run better than Armstrong’s 5.74.     

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Orioles0615 Hangout Grand Counsel

Orioles0615

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1 hour ago, mdbdotcom said:

He looks like a big nothing to me. I don't see why he's still on the team. He would have been one of my picks to DFA in December. Am I missing something? Is there any reason for him to still be on the roster other than the overall lack of big league pitching talent on the team?

I mean to be fair, half the 40 man roster looks like nothing. 

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interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

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1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Sometimes I wonder if you say these things because you believe them, or just to be provocative.

Armstong and Givens both debuted in 2015.   Armstrong has a career 1.3 rWAR and 4.34 ERA.    His ERA was 5.74 last year.  Before he was out of options, he was shuttled back and forth to the minors regularly, and accordingly, he has only amassed 116 innings in the big leagues.   

Givens has been a mainstay of the Orioles’ bullpen since his call-up in 2015, never returning to the minors.    He’s amassed 6.4 rWAR and a 3.40 ERA in 323 big league innings.   His 4.57 ERA last year was the worst of his career, but still more than a run better than Armstrong’s 5.74.     

Ding ding ding. We have a winner. It's getting really old. And increasingly obvious. Weams' agenda for awhile has been to drive traffic on the website. I think that's been fairly obvious, and he's admitted as such in various threads, copping to throwing out comments simply to get a reaction and fuel comments. I don't agree with it; I think it's sad that the site resorts to these kind of tactics at the expense of real discourse.

Let's call a spade a spade. Saying Armstrong is better than Givens is a troll comment with no basis whatsoever. He doesn't back it up with any reasoning, he doesn't give us any stats, because he knows it's not really defensible. He just throws it out there to the wolves come what may because it's going to get clicks. And he neglects to mention something that might be actually useful, like his former coworker Luke's twitter thread on this very topic.

OH is better than this, or at least I thought it was.

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mdbdotcom Hangout Grand Counsel

mdbdotcom

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25 minutes ago, andrewochs615 said:

I mean to be fair, half the 40 man roster looks like nothing. 

True, but we just added a bunch of pitchers via the Rule 5 draft, trades and waiver wire pickups. Yet we release utility players instead of pitchers. And in his blog this morning Roch listed Armstrong as one of the probables for the bullpen in 2020. I just don't get it.

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interloper Hangout Grand Counsel

interloper

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This is where we really miss Luke, who could tell us about Armstrong's repertoire, what the Orioles may see, and the potential upside. You know - an actual answer to the OP's very fair question. Instead we get flippant, one-off comments that do nothing to elevate discourse of the board except to drive empty traffic and invite more flippant comments. Last time I checked that wasn't what the OH was about, but what do I know? 

Luke had a tweet thread about Armstrong in which he identified some things he could work on that could improve his performance. And it sheds some light on what the Orioles and their data have on the player. Armstrong himself then responded on Twitter, saying Luke basically nailed every aspect of his offseason work plan. It's extremely impressive and it's fun to think that maybe it played a role in him landing a job with the O's. 

I can't believe it's up to me to link this in order to get this thread on track, but that's the state of things I guess.

 

 

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Orioles0615 Hangout Grand Counsel

Orioles0615

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23 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

True, but we just added a bunch of pitchers via the Rule 5 draft, trades and waiver wire pickups. Yet we release utility players instead of pitchers. And in his blog this morning Roch listed Armstrong as one of the probables for the bullpen in 2020. I just don't get it.

Oh I agree, you have to throw everything at the wall to see what sticks. But i would guess not a lot sticks, but its part of the process

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