MLB response to tanking: more playoff teams?

[eddie83]

37 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I guess it wouldn't hurt, but how often does a college game feature more than one or two high-round prospects?  I really don't know.

Not many.

Look I think on the list of 500 things to help baseball it may not even rank in the top 500. I just think the sport needs to hype its upcoming players on its own. 

37 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

When I was 12 I watched all the baseball I could, which included Saturday games of the week, Orioles games, whatever.  All of that added up to less than you can just watch of the Orioles today. And my schedule is slightly more packed than it was when I was 12.

Exactly. It isn’t like there is now 30 hours in a day now. With the NFL you can invest about 6 hours on a day when many people are off and be up to date with 80% of the league. 

I think years ago with less sports on TV and fewer options what we could watch felt more special. 

[eddie83]

26 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

This I can't argue with.  They are making money.  In the case of teams like the pirates its unfortunately to the negative of the fans as the owners plead poverty and take home increasingly large amounts of money.

However you are starting to see a change. Attendance is dropping, down 15 million in the last 8 years.  A sport this big doesnt fail in a day, it fails over a generation or two.

An increasing amount of revenue is coming from media deals, and that is not healthy for the sport.

Like I said above, it does not fail in a season.  National viewership is down.  ESPN weekly telecasts and ratings for the WS have been steadily decreasing.  While I will admit that local viewership has been strong, and is largely tied to competitiveness of the team, there was at least a 1% drop in that viewership last year.

It's tough to speculate but I am guessing the cheating scandal will be strongly felt come this spring as more disillusioned fans drop off.  Also keep in mind that local media viewership is largely tied to cable viewership which has been in steady decline.  What you get is people watching a game because it comes with their cable subscription.  Ask those people to pay for the product ala carte and you might start seeing different results.

So my first answer to this is that all of those parties did come together and agree on a path to fixing climate change.  It was called the Paris Accords and before that the Kyoto Protocol. One of those parties backed out (but I wont get into politics).  So your analogy fails in that way.

I have been saying g for awhile that MLB is moving toward a 8 team league with 4-6 other teams who are allowed to compete in any given year.

Did you read the article linked.  Because what you are describing, a league and revenue sharing system, largely controlled by the largest markets is what we have. "All of the lower-revenue smaller-market teams are receiving less money than they used to under the old CBA."

In addition because the players didnt put up a fight for more of the pie, smaller market teams didnt object to this system because they could still maximize profits.  This profit maximization system decreases the product on the field (paying players less), disadvantages small market teams (less revenue sharing), while boosting revenues, especially for large market teams who sit at or near the cap and yet make more money.

Profits are one way to measure the success of the game (and rightly should be), and are oft used by supporters of the current system to extol its virtues, but are only part of that story that includes viewership, attendance, the health of cities that are bank rolling new stadiums, etc.  

As long as baseball let's the small market teams compete 3-4 out of every ten years it will renew interest in those cities and expand viewership.  But that's not a super healthy sport long term and that systems relies on a system where baseball and baseball games was a principle form of entertainment.

Things like the streaming boom, Twitch TV, and you tube might change that a bit.

I do limited streaming but it seems to me on some levels it is similar to cable. This idea that people can just pick individual channels they want to watch will never happen. Some services offer some channels and others don’t. It is still a form of bundling. That said the younger generation is into streaming and baseball needs to be on top of that.

I actually think with the way younger players are taking over the sport it works to better competition. I just think we hit a time where many of the big market teams were good at the same time. The Cubs are already starting a decline. It’s no guarantee the Yankees will still be the same monster they are in 3/4 years. Players age, get hurt. The Red Sox powerhouse is over. Not saying those teams will fall as far as the Orioles but you get my point. All these teams will have an expiration date. The Nats extended their window due to Soto, Robles and big money pitchers. If Kieboom doesn’t pan out that will hurt big time. Rendon being gone will hurt. 

[fansince1988]

I'm in favor of changes to the structure of MLB, including expanding the playoffs. The current structure favors only the large market teams, and it encourages fans to stay home in April and September. If MLB wants to be viable twenty years from now, they need to make some drastic changes. 

[Tony-OH]

20 hours ago, atomic said:

I would like to go back to 4 playoff teams total.  If you play 162 games that should be enough to pair it down to 4 teams.  I don’t see a need for a wild card and bigger divisions would be more enjoyable so you aren’t playing the same team 15 times a year.

Or just go back to the balance schedule. Although I like having less West Coast games throughout the year, playing 18 games against AL East opponents is not fair when it comes to the Wild Card which goes by best records after the Division winners. How is it fair that the AL Central teams play each other 18-19 times while the Orioles, Blue Jays and Tampa have to play the $200  million plus payroll Yankees and Red Sox 18-19 times? 

I'm actually for an East Coast vs West Coast Leagues both with the DH. Make it a balance schedule that would include "interleague games that all teams from one league would play that year." Top six teams in each league advance with the top two teams getting first round byes (similar to football). Three games sets for the first round, five game sets for the next two rounds. No Travel days for three game sets as higher seed (3 and 4) gets all home games. 

World Series is still best of seven, team with high regular season record gets 4 of 7 games at home (first two and last two).

[Philip]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I do think there should be individual punishments for players who participated.  But how do we really know who participated?  Or how much?  What if no one flips, and testifies against their teammates? What if Altuve says Alvarez was in on it, and Alvarez claims innocence?  Ban Alvarez for life?

Asterisks... meh.  I don't like them.  If you do it for this, do you do it for every team that had a PED cheat?  Do you do it for the '86 Astros division title, everyone knows Mike Scott scuffed the ball and probably learned it from Nolan Ryan.  Do we put an asterisk on Gaylord Perry's cap on his HOF plaque?

That’s why the trashcan could be a big indicator. If you watch an at bat, you hear the trashcan, you know a particular pitch is coming, see what happens. Even if he grounds out or pops up he still knew that pitch was coming and was ready for it.

It only benefited the batters, So even though I feel very bad about letting the rest of the team off, I would be willing to accept not penalizing the pitching staff.

But Altuve? I feel as betrayed by him as I felt by Raffy When he stabbed his finger at the congressmen and denied.

I feel pretty brokenhearted about Collin McHugh too. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Philip said:

That’s why the trashcan could be a big indicator. If you watch an at bat, you hear the trashcan, you know a particular pitch is coming, see what happens. Even if he grounds out or pops up he still knew that pitch was coming and was ready for it.

It only benefited the batters, So even though I feel very bad about letting the rest of the team off, I would be willing to accept not penalizing the pitching staff.

But Altuve? I feel as betrayed by him as I felt by Raffy When he stabbed his finger at the congressmen and denied.

I feel pretty brokenhearted about Collin McHugh too. 

The offense operating at a higher level positively impacts the pitching staff.

[ExileAngelos]

2 hours ago, fansince1988 said:

I'm in favor of changes to the structure of MLB, including expanding the playoffs. The current structure favors only the large market teams, and it encourages fans to stay home in April and September. If MLB wants to be viable twenty years from now, they need to make some drastic changes. 

Let's expand the league by two teams and let everyone in.  Can do a 32 team tournament with all 2 out of 3 game series. We can use the regular season for seeding purposes. 

[atomic]

4 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Or just go back to the balance schedule. Although I like having less West Coast games throughout the year, playing 18 games against AL East opponents is not fair when it comes to the Wild Card which goes by best records after the Division winners. How is it fair that the AL Central teams play each other 18-19 times while the Orioles, Blue Jays and Tampa have to play the $200  million plus payroll Yankees and Red Sox 18-19 times? 

I'm actually for an East Coast vs West Coast Leagues both with the DH. Make it a balance schedule that would include "interleague games that all teams from one league would play that year." Top six teams in each league advance with the top two teams getting first round byes (similar to football). Three games sets for the first round, five game sets for the next two rounds. No Travel days for three game sets as higher seed (3 and 4) gets all home games. 

World Series is still best of seven, team with high regular season record gets 4 of 7 games at home (first two and last two).

The East Coast and West Coast leagues is a good idea.  Have 8 team divisions.  Combine us with Pirates, Nationals , Reds, Phillies, Braves, Indians, Mets. 

[DrungoHazewood]

15 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Or just go back to the balance schedule. Although I like having less West Coast games throughout the year, playing 18 games against AL East opponents is not fair when it comes to the Wild Card which goes by best records after the Division winners. How is it fair that the AL Central teams play each other 18-19 times while the Orioles, Blue Jays and Tampa have to play the $200  million plus payroll Yankees and Red Sox 18-19 times? 

I'm actually for an East Coast vs West Coast Leagues both with the DH. Make it a balance schedule that would include "interleague games that all teams from one league would play that year." Top six teams in each league advance with the top two teams getting first round byes (similar to football). Three games sets for the first round, five game sets for the next two rounds. No Travel days for three game sets as higher seed (3 and 4) gets all home games. 

World Series is still best of seven, team with high regular season record gets 4 of 7 games at home (first two and last two).

 

10 hours ago, atomic said:

The East Coast and West Coast leagues is a good idea.  Have 8 team divisions.  Combine us with Pirates, Nationals , Reds, Phillies, Braves, Indians, Mets. 

I've long been in favor of geographically aligned leagues.

No solution is going to be magic, we're not going to bring back the 1920s when baseball was pretty much the only major sport and there was little competing entertainment.  But you can probably help things a bit if you rarely had out-of-timezone games, and they tweaked some things to get games back to something like 2:30.  Young fans could actually see most of most games, and with quicker pace it might hold their attention better.

[Plutarch]

20 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I do think there should be individual punishments for players who participated.  But how do we really know who participated?  Or how much?  What if no one flips, and testifies against their teammates? What if Altuve says Alvarez was in on it, and Alvarez claims innocence?  Ban Alvarez for life?

Asterisks... meh.  I don't like them.  If you do it for this, do you do it for every team that had a PED cheat?  Do you do it for the '86 Astros division title, everyone knows Mike Scott scuffed the ball and probably learned it from Nolan Ryan.  Do we put an asterisk on Gaylord Perry's cap on his HOF plaque?

Not an asterisk, but a big glob of Vaseline on the hat would be funny

[DrungoHazewood]

30 minutes ago, Plutarch said:

Not an asterisk, but a big glob of Vaseline on the hat would be funny

That highlights the challenge with cheating.  Is it funny, or is it the death penalty?

[eddie83]

23 hours ago, eddie83 said:

Not many.

Look I think on the list of 500 things to help baseball it may not even rank in the top 500. I just think the sport needs to hype its upcoming players on its own. 

Exactly. It isn’t like there is now 30 hours in a day now. With the NFL you can invest about 6 hours on a day when many people are off and be up to date with 80% of the league. 

I think years ago with less sports on TV and fewer options what we could watch felt more special. 

Well as I sit here and watch MLBN, I see that Michigan and Vanderbilt play at 7pm on the Network this Friday. Austin Martin alert.