How and when will MLB resume in 2020? Update: Owners Agree - Proposal Submitted to Union

[Redskins Rick]

1 hour ago, webbrick2010 said:

Safe from a virus that has no serious effects on kids? 

I don't know who the government is protecting, looks like nursing homes and the morbidly obese, but kids are at zero risk, and I wish folks would stop using their safety as an excuse for destroying their lives.

No serious effects, have you lost your senses?

I dont care if the numbers are relatively low. But to say its safe, is very extremist.

Kids have died, try telling that to a parent that lost a child due to COVID.

I would be like Die Hard the movie and cold cocking the reporter at the end of the movie.

[Ripken]

5 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

Walk me through how opening up the economy safely and herd immunity work together.  From what I understand, to get to herd immunity, 70-90% of the population needs to be infected.  Currently the mortality rate is 6%.  Now, I definitely believe the amount of cases is underreported due to lack of testing and those not showing symptoms.  So let’s say instead of the 1.25M reported cases, there are actually 2.5M people with it and the mortality rate is 3%.  We’re talking 6-9M deaths.  

Some disclaimers here.  No one, including and especially the CDC and WHO, have been right about much.  I'm not in the health care field or a related science.  I value any opinion on this.  We're all throwing darts at some level hoping to get lucky.  Appreciate the discussion.  Ready?

I absolutely disagree with 6%.  I don't believe it is anywhere near that.  I imagine once we realize how many walking carriers are out there we'll see mortality is under 1%, even well under for "healthy people".  I also believe the number of reported deaths is higher than what is true.  The majority of deaths are elderly and most of the rest are health-compromised people.  And I'm not making light of death, just discussing where we are.  It really wiped out some nursing homes and the like.  The most vulnerable need to stay home for now but, thankfully, elderly people are not a measurable part of the economy.

Beyond that, I think everyone waiting for testing and vaccine(s) are going to be disappointed.  Vaccines take time.  The reports of progress and expediting the process are great but I really doubt it's coming soon and even then it's not 100% effective.  It's a weapon in our arsenal against this but not the answer.  Testing has been wildly inconsistent with times and accuracy.  Further, what good is a test if, 10 minutes after you take one, you go near another human, or go to a public place, or in any way expose yourself in some manner?  We're passing this thing while being asymptomatic too.  Unless we really come up with, I dunno, heat cameras or something that are highly capable of spotting this in real time, tests are helpful but not the answer either.

We need the healthy people to go out there, live normal lives, precautions being used, but they need to get this thing and prevail until the virus runs into corners where it can't spread anymore and it just dies off.  That's herd immunity and it's the only real solution.  Yes, people will die.  People have already died.  People will die no matter what path we take.  Beyond all of that, two-thirds of new cases in NY were from people staying at home and social distancing.  Think about that.  We're already doing herd immunity.  After a few months of being trapped inside, and once warm weather gets here, people will get on with living and that's what we need.  Calling it a war is accurate.  You send a million young people to battle, knowing 100,000 will die, to prevent an invasion that could kill 10 million.

All the previous pandemics (yes, not as severe) followed the same path and took up to 18 months or so to go away.  Summer helps, some treatments have some good results, but in the end, the virus just stops hurting us, outside of some mutated strains here and there.  Epidemiologists and Virologists have admitted as much.

Then there's this and I mean it sincerely (not being a dick):  Walk me through how staying home 6-18 more months and completely trashing the economy isn't a far more devastating outcome.  Flattening the curve was just that: slow the initial infections so we can load up on supplies, learn about the virus, and get going on every possible level of prevention and cure, while not overloading the health care facilities.  We've done that.  It's time to get going.

[Redskins Rick]

6 minutes ago, Ripken said:

Some disclaimers here.  No one, including and especially the CDC and WHO, have been right about much.  I'm not in the health care field or a related science.  I value any opinion on this.  We're all throwing darts at some level hoping to get lucky.  Appreciate the discussion.  Ready?

I absolutely disagree with 6%.  I don't believe it is anywhere near that.  I imagine once we realize how many walking carriers are out there we'll see mortality is under 1%, even well under for "healthy people".  I also believe the number of reported deaths is higher than what is true.  The majority of deaths are elderly and most of the rest are health-compromised people.  And I'm not making light of death, just discussing where we are.  It really wiped out some nursing homes and the like.  The most vulnerable need to stay home for now but, thankfully, elderly people are not a measurable part of the economy.

Beyond that, I think everyone waiting for testing and vaccine(s) are going to be disappointed.  Vaccines take time.  The reports of progress and expediting the process are great but I really doubt it's coming soon and even then it's not 100% effective.  It's a weapon in our arsenal against this but not the answer.  Testing has been wildly inconsistent with times and accuracy.  Further, what good is a test if, 10 minutes after you take one, you go near another human, or go to a public place, or in any way expose yourself in some manner?  We're passing this thing while being asymptomatic too.  Unless we really come up with, I dunno, heat cameras or something that are highly capable of spotting this in real time, tests are helpful but not the answer either.

We need the healthy people to go out there, live normal lives, precautions being used, but they need to get this thing and prevail until the virus runs into corners where it can't spread anymore and it just dies off.  That's herd immunity and it's the only real solution.  Yes, people will die.  People have already died.  People will die no matter what path we take.  Beyond all of that, two-thirds of new cases in NY were from people staying at home and social distancing.  Think about that.  We're already doing herd immunity.  After a few months of being trapped inside, and once warm weather gets here, people will get on with living and that's what we need.  Calling it a war is accurate.  You send a million young people to battle, knowing 100,000 will die, to prevent an invasion that could kill 10 million.

All the previous pandemics (yes, not as severe) followed the same path and took up to 18 months or so to go away.  Summer helps, some treatments have some good results, but in the end, the virus just stops hurting us, outside of some mutated strains here and there.  Epidemiologists and Virologists have admitted as much.

Then there's this and I mean it sincerely (not being a dick):  Walk me through how staying home 6-18 more months and completely trashing the economy isn't a far more devastating outcome.  Flattening the curve was just that: slow the initial infections so we can load up on supplies, learn about the virus, and get going on every possible level of prevention and cure, while not overloading the health care facilities.  We've done that.  It's time to get going.

I agree with most of your thoughts.

I believe the WHO is a hot mess, run by an administer with no medical background.

I think the 1918 pandemic was pretty severe at least round 2 was, because  people felt safe and just went out and about.

I dont believe anybody but extremists want everybody to stay home for 18 months.

Yes, we need the country back to work, yet be safe about it.

We can beat this pandemic, just like the other ones.

I think some have felt, keeping kids home through the end of 2020, was to keep them safe, and their families safer.

If you do have medical conditions, then you need to take more precautions.

The millennials feel like they are young and indestructible, most were carriers and didnt get sick, yet some did, and have died.

I also believe the death numbers are lower than what is being reported.

But, even if smaller, still too many dead, for us to go with the herd mentality and those that die, well, so be it.

Just my unprofessional two cents worth.'

Signed, me, recovered COVID-19.

[CallMeBrooksie]

6 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

The millennials feel like they are young and indestructible, most were carriers and didnt get sick, yet some did, and have died..

Ahh, yes. That's what this pandemic has been missing. Some sorely needed millenial-shaming/blaming

[Redskins Rick]

2 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

Ahh, yes. That's what this pandemic has been missing. Some sorely needed millenial-shaming/blaming

Sadly, its true, look at spring break pictures, they are great grandparents out and about.

Just google spring breakers and covid, you will see quite a few about college kids returning from spring break and becoming sick.

[webbrick2010]

32 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I think it's a near-certainty that kids can be carriers without really being affected.  And they will transmit the virus to teachers, administrators, and other people at home.

And not all kids are unaffected.

A near certainty?

Based on what?

The early studies have found "no evidence" of transmisibilty in school age children

More studies are underway, but nothing is anywhere close to a "near certainty"

[CallMeBrooksie]

1 minute ago, Redskins Rick said:

Sadly, its true, look at spring break pictures, they are great grandparents out and about.

Just google spring breakers and covid, you will see quite a few about college kids returning from spring break and becoming sick.

I'm about to blow your mind right now...

Today's college students are NOT millenials. I accept your apology 

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, PaulFolk said:

This would be the best-case scenario for sure, and I hope it happens. Right now, though, it doesn't seem realistic.

The big thing it's going to come down to is testing. For baseball to have any hope of returning this year, MLB will need to have access to thousands of tests every day (or thereabouts) to test the players, coaches, support staff, etc. Right now there aren't enough tests available. Will there be enough by June? I certainly hope so, but there's no way to know just yet.

Why would testing need to happen? The demographics of the baseball players and their support staff suggest they have a very little chance of contracting the virus and even if they did, the chances are so minimum of them having serious consequences due to the virus that it really doesn't make a ton of sense to have to test everyone first.

Of the athletes that have come out as having this virus, none had significant complications like 99.9% of the other people who come in contact with this virus.

 

[Redskins Rick]

7 minutes ago, CallMeBrooksie said:

I'm about to blow your mind right now...

Today's college students are NOT millenials. I accept your apology 

Yikes, you are right, sorry, and I do apologize.

[Tony-OH]

46 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

No serious effects, have you lost your senses?

I dont care if the numbers are relatively low. But to say its safe, is very extremist.

Kids have died, try telling that to a parent that lost a child due to COVID.

I would be like Die Hard the movie and cold cocking the reporter at the end of the movie.

Kids die every year of FLU and many diseases every year. It's awful, but it's part of life. It certainly doesn't make it easier for the families who have someone who have perished due to this virus, but you can't quarantine ourselves all the time over everything over every possible virus. 

 

[backwardsk]

22 minutes ago, Ripken said:

Some disclaimers here.  No one, including and especially the CDC and WHO, have been right about much.  I'm not in the health care field or a related science.  I value any opinion on this.  We're all throwing darts at some level hoping to get lucky.  Appreciate the discussion.  Ready?

I absolutely disagree with 6%.  I don't believe it is anywhere near that.  I imagine once we realize how many walking carriers are out there we'll see mortality is under 1%, even well under for "healthy people".  I also believe the number of reported deaths is higher than what is true.  The majority of deaths are elderly and most of the rest are health-compromised people.  And I'm not making light of death, just discussing where we are.  It really wiped out some nursing homes and the like.  The most vulnerable need to stay home for now but, thankfully, elderly people are not a measurable part of the economy.

Beyond that, I think everyone waiting for testing and vaccine(s) are going to be disappointed.  Vaccines take time.  The reports of progress and expediting the process are great but I really doubt it's coming soon and even then it's not 100% effective.  It's a weapon in our arsenal against this but not the answer.  Testing has been wildly inconsistent with times and accuracy.  Further, what good is a test if, 10 minutes after you take one, you go near another human, or go to a public place, or in any way expose yourself in some manner?  We're passing this thing while being asymptomatic too.  Unless we really come up with, I dunno, heat cameras or something that are highly capable of spotting this in real time, tests are helpful but not the answer either.

We need the healthy people to go out there, live normal lives, precautions being used, but they need to get this thing and prevail until the virus runs into corners where it can't spread anymore and it just dies off.  That's herd immunity and it's the only real solution.  Yes, people will die.  People have already died.  People will die no matter what path we take.  Beyond all of that, two-thirds of new cases in NY were from people staying at home and social distancing.  Think about that.  We're already doing herd immunity.  After a few months of being trapped inside, and once warm weather gets here, people will get on with living and that's what we need.  Calling it a war is accurate.  You send a million young people to battle, knowing 100,000 will die, to prevent an invasion that could kill 10 million.

All the previous pandemics (yes, not as severe) followed the same path and took up to 18 months or so to go away.  Summer helps, some treatments have some good results, but in the end, the virus just stops hurting us, outside of some mutated strains here and there.  Epidemiologists and Virologists have admitted as much.

Then there's this and I mean it sincerely (not being a dick):  Walk me through how staying home 6-18 more months and completely trashing the economy isn't a far more devastating outcome.  Flattening the curve was just that: slow the initial infections so we can load up on supplies, learn about the virus, and get going on every possible level of prevention and cure, while not overloading the health care facilities.  We've done that.  It's time to get going.

I appreciate the discussion.  The 6% rate is reported deaths over reported cases.  I agree that the reported number of cases is way less than actual.  But by how much? Do 7M+ Americans have it currently?   I don’t know.  As far as the death count being overinflated, why are there more deaths than normal plus documented COVID-19 cases?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html
 

The economy is going to go through hell.  I thoroughly understand how scary it is to be out of work.  I was out of work for 4.5 months last year.

I believe the administration put out a sensible plan to open the economy back up.  But we have states like Georgia that are not following those guidelines.  Opening things too quickly without being able to test and trace is going waste the past two months, IMO.
 

The curve has been flattened when you look at the country as a whole.  But for most of this period, NY lead with the cases.  Non NY cases and deaths are continuing to rise.  More than doubling in many states over the past few weeks.

 

[Tony-OH]

45 minutes ago, Ripken said:

Some disclaimers here.  No one, including and especially the CDC and WHO, have been right about much.  I'm not in the health care field or a related science.  I value any opinion on this.  We're all throwing darts at some level hoping to get lucky.  Appreciate the discussion.  Ready?

I absolutely disagree with 6%.  I don't believe it is anywhere near that.  I imagine once we realize how many walking carriers are out there we'll see mortality is under 1%, even well under for "healthy people".  I also believe the number of reported deaths is higher than what is true.  The majority of deaths are elderly and most of the rest are health-compromised people.  And I'm not making light of death, just discussing where we are.  It really wiped out some nursing homes and the like.  The most vulnerable need to stay home for now but, thankfully, elderly people are not a measurable part of the economy.

Beyond that, I think everyone waiting for testing and vaccine(s) are going to be disappointed.  Vaccines take time.  The reports of progress and expediting the process are great but I really doubt it's coming soon and even then it's not 100% effective.  It's a weapon in our arsenal against this but not the answer.  Testing has been wildly inconsistent with times and accuracy.  Further, what good is a test if, 10 minutes after you take one, you go near another human, or go to a public place, or in any way expose yourself in some manner?  We're passing this thing while being asymptomatic too.  Unless we really come up with, I dunno, heat cameras or something that are highly capable of spotting this in real time, tests are helpful but not the answer either.

We need the healthy people to go out there, live normal lives, precautions being used, but they need to get this thing and prevail until the virus runs into corners where it can't spread anymore and it just dies off.  That's herd immunity and it's the only real solution.  Yes, people will die.  People have already died.  People will die no matter what path we take.  Beyond all of that, two-thirds of new cases in NY were from people staying at home and social distancing.  Think about that.  We're already doing herd immunity.  After a few months of being trapped inside, and once warm weather gets here, people will get on with living and that's what we need.  Calling it a war is accurate.  You send a million young people to battle, knowing 100,000 will die, to prevent an invasion that could kill 10 million.

All the previous pandemics (yes, not as severe) followed the same path and took up to 18 months or so to go away.  Summer helps, some treatments have some good results, but in the end, the virus just stops hurting us, outside of some mutated strains here and there.  Epidemiologists and Virologists have admitted as much.

Then there's this and I mean it sincerely (not being a dick):  Walk me through how staying home 6-18 more months and completely trashing the economy isn't a far more devastating outcome.  Flattening the curve was just that: slow the initial infections so we can load up on supplies, learn about the virus, and get going on every possible level of prevention and cure, while not overloading the health care facilities.  We've done that.  It's time to get going.

This is tremendous. Anyone who thinks this virus has a true 6% mortality rate has bought into the madness hook, line and sinker. First, many more people have had this virus then have been reported. Most had very little symptoms or had symptoms they fought and won at home before COVID19 was a known thing.

I'm fairly convinced my wife and I had after our trip to Nashville in late January. We both became sick right afterwords with about every symptom we now know about COVID19. We went to the urgent care and both came up negative for the FLU or STRIP or ear infections. 

My wife ended up getting worse than I did and after a couple of weeks, had to go back only to find out she now had full blow pnemonia. She had several breathing treatments but thankfully, in January, they didn't rush to put her on a vent which is what is happening now.

It was rough for her, but for me, I had about a 1-2 week rough patch and within a month I was back to 100%. She ended up defeating it after the anti-biotics beat down the pneumonia, but I'm guessing if this happens a month or two later, she would have be hospitalized and potentially put on a vent, which nurse will tell you i certainly not a good thing, particularly if you are on one for a long time.

Now we both tried to quarantine ourselves away from our two sons that live with us, but neither end up getting sick.

Now maybe we had it, or maybe we had something else with the exact same symptoms, but whatever virus we had sucked, but our immune systems did what they were designed to do and beat it.

So yes, this virus is dangerous, and yes it can be deadly, particularly for those vulnerable to viruses that attack the respiratory system, but FLU is deadly every year as well.

I'm ok with using common sense social distancing for bit longer, and those who are vulnerable, work or live with the vulnerable should take extra precautions, but for the rest of us who are healthy they need to open things back up and allow people to live their lives.

This means letting those players and personnel who choose to come back and play, play. Those who choose to stay quarantined should be allowed to do so.

We need to get back to allowing Americans to make their choices. If I choose to "risk" watching a game in Camden Yards, it does not make it unsafe for anyone else who is quarantining. If you wanna wear your mask forever, feel free. If it makes you feel safe to social distance and not go to restaurants or bars, that's your choice and I support that 100%. But I also support those who want to open back up and get back to normal life.

 

[Redskins Rick]

25 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Kids die every year of FLU and many diseases every year. It's awful, but it's part of life. It certainly doesn't make it easier for the families who have someone who have perished due to this virus, but you can't quarantine ourselves all the time over everything over every possible virus. 

 

I agree with you, kids do die, diseases, cancer. Just image how many more, if it wasnt for places like St. Judes and all the Children Hospitals.

But IMO, this isnt the flu and this is just a disease,

This is a very highly contagious and deadly virus, that healthy and well people can carry and spread to everybody they come in contact with in a 2 week people.

I cringe to think how many people would have died, if we hadnt quarantined ourselves.

 

[Tony-OH]

19 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

I appreciate the discussion.  The 6% rate is reported deaths over reported cases.  I agree that the reported number of cases is way less than actual.  But by how much? Do 7M+ Americans have it currently?   I don’t know.  As far as the death count being overinflated, why are there more deaths than normal plus documented COVID-19 cases?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html
 

The economy is going to go through hell.  I thoroughly understand how scary it is to be out of work.  I was out of work for 4.5 months last year.

I believe the administration put out a sensible plan to open the economy back up.  But we have states like Georgia that are not following those guidelines.  Opening things too quickly without being able to test and trace is going waste the past two months, IMO.
 

The curve has been flattened when you look at the country as a whole.  But for most of this period, NY lead with the cases.  Non NY cases and deaths are continuing to rise.  More than doubling in many states over the past few weeks.

 

Weird how places with the strictest quarantine rules seem to have the biggest rise in cases and deaths, isn't it?  Cases have been going up because of the availability of testing. As for deaths, it's widely being reported that hospitals have a financial stake in reporting deaths as COVID19-related, when many of these deaths had underlying and serious problems before they passed. 

I'm sure the initial social distancing measures slowed the virus, but what is not being considered in my opinions are all the other things that have most likely spiked due to these quarantine measures due to the length of them. Suicides, alcoholism, drug abuse, physical and sexual abuse are certainly on the rise with people stuck together with very little outlets.

All in all, it's time to open things up and get back to normal in my opinion. 

AS for baseball and fans, James Earl Jones said it best in Fields of Dream.

"People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds us of all that once was good and that could be again. Oh...people will come Ray. People will most definitely come.”

 

[Redskins Rick]

7 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This is tremendous. Anyone who thinks this virus has a true 6% mortality rate has bought into the madness hook, line and sinker. First, many more people have had this virus then have been reported. Most had very little symptoms or had symptoms they fought and won at home before COVID19 was a known thing.

I'm fairly convinced my wife and I had after our trip to Nashville in late January. We both became sick right afterwords with about every symptom we now know about COVID19. We went to the urgent care and both came up negative for the FLU or STRIP or ear infections. 

My wife ended up getting worse than I did and after a couple of weeks, had to go back only to find out she now had full blow pnemonia. She had several breathing treatments but thankfully, in January, they didn't rush to put her on a vent which is what is happening now.

It was rough for her, but for me, I had about a 1-2 week rough patch and within a month I was back to 100%. She ended up defeating it after the anti-biotics beat down the pneumonia, but I'm guessing if this happens a month or two later, she would have be hospitalized and potentially put on a vent, which nurse will tell you i certainly not a good thing, particularly if you are on one for a long time.

Now we both tried to quarantine ourselves away from our two sons that live with us, but neither end up getting sick.

Now maybe we had it, or maybe we had something else with the exact same symptoms, but whatever virus we had sucked, but our immune systems did what they were designed to do and beat it.

So yes, this virus is dangerous, and yes it can be deadly, particularly for those vulnerable to viruses that attack the respiratory system, but FLU is deadly every year as well.

I'm ok with using common sense social distancing for bit longer, and those who are vulnerable, work or live with the vulnerable should take extra precautions, but for the rest of us who are healthy they need to open things back up and allow people to live their lives.

This means letting those players and personnel who choose to come back and play, play. Those who choose to stay quarantined should be allowed to do so.

We need to get back to allowing Americans to make their choices. If I choose to "risk" watching a game in Camden Yards, it does not make it unsafe for anyone else who is quarantining. If you wanna wear your mask forever, feel free. If it makes you feel safe to social distance and not go to restaurants or bars, that's your choice and I support that 100%. But I also support those who want to open back up and get back to normal life.

 

Glad you both are better.

Vents are only used as a last resort, first is nasal canal, then cpap or other type of breathing gadget that I forget the name of. Last and only Last is the vent, when your O2 numbers drop and they do it, to keep your brain from dying and your organs from shutting down.

I was lucky, I was rushed to the ER, my numbers dropped, but they only had to use nasal canal on my and then hydroxchloroquine and zpack combo. This was very early April.

What worries me, is the round 2, which in 1918 was way more deadly, as people thought it was all behind them.