Press Box: David Sampson on Orioles Draft Advantage

[weams]

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, weams said:

 

Quote

“The Marlins, the Orioles, teams like that where we promote players faster to get to their service time clock going sooner, that is going to be a huge differentiator with all these unsigned players out of high school and college.”

Huh?

[weams]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Huh?

I sure don't get it. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, weams said:

I sure don't get it. 

Comments like that make me wonder if the author has even been paying attention.

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Huh?

Its stated a little backwards but what I think he is saying is:

For the college player or advanced high school player that does not get taken in the 5 rounds, the O's can be attractive to that player because there is opportunity because the major league level is still building.   So if there is a SS, 3B or pitcher that thinks he can move fast the O's are a good organization to sign with because Ruiz, Iglesias and the current pitchers are not long term solutions.  

If a non drafted player is willing to sign for 20K because he thinks he is good then the real thing  he is looking for is opportunity to move fast to the majors where there is a opening.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Its stated a little backwards but what I think he is saying is:

For the college player or advanced high school player that does not get taken in the 5 rounds, the O's can be attractive to that player because there is opportunity because the major league level is still building.   So if there is a SS, 3B or pitcher that thinks he can move fast the O's are a good organization to sign with because Ruiz, Iglesias and the current pitchers are not long term solutions.  

If a non drafted player is willing to sign for 20K because he thinks he is good then the real thing  he is looking for is opportunity to move fast to the majors where there is a opening.

Except Elias has shown a strong tendency toward slow promotions and gaming service time.

[wildcard]

54 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Except Elias has shown a strong tendency toward slow promotions and gaming service time.

Elias came through the scouting ranks.  He has hired scouts that he feels are an upgrades to what he O's  had in the past.   He and his scouts know how to sell a player on coming to the O's.    He will sell that the team is focused on 2022/2023 were  these draftees if they think they are good can be a part of the near future with the O's if they preform well.   Its offering opportunity if the player is good enough to move fast through the system.

Rutschman moved from rookie ball to A ball in a few months.   He would probably have moved from A+  ball to AAA this year if there was a full season.   And been in the majors next season. Kremer and Baumann were moved up mid season.      Scouts can talk that stuff up.  Especially to a kid who thinks he has the stuff to be a major leaguer.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Elias came through the scouting ranks.  He has hired scouts that he feels are an upgrades to what he O's  had in the past.   He and his scouts know how to sell a player on coming to the O's.    He will sell that the team is focused on 2022/2023 were  these draftees if they think they are good can be a part of the near future with the O's if they preform well.   Its offering opportunity if the player is good enough to move fast through the system.

Rurchman moved from rookie ball to A ball in a few months.   He would probably have moved from A+  ball to AAA this year if there was a full season.   And been in the majors next season. Kremer and Baumann were moved up mid season.      Scouts can talk that stuff up.  Especially to a kid who thinks he has the stuff to be a major leaguer.

"Rurchman" was only in rookie ball as a way of giving back to the farm teams.  Do you really think the 1-1 polished college bat needed reps in rookie ball?  He could have started his career in Advanced A.

I think you are drawing all of this up out of thin air.

Elias, thus far, has shown exactly the opposite traits this piece was expounding.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Eric-OH said:

Think you’ve got it, and you also said it better than he did.  He was backwards!

I agree with this too.  Strangely, I like the Marlins and don’t have too much ill will towards Sampson. He could have said it better.  

Do you think players in the minors are "moving fast" under Elias?

Cause I don't see it.

Yes I get that the O's are bad and have more holes at the ML level than good teams. 

[Frobby]

58 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Except Elias has shown a strong tendency toward slow promotions and gaming service time.

You’re basing that on one season of data.   We’ll see over the longer term.    But, I agree that I don’t see the logic of assuming the opposite of his short track record.   

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Eric-OH said:

Fast?  Nope I wouldn’t use that word and now I can’t evaluate under normal circumstances.  There are no more normal circumstances.  

How can we say what Elias’ style is when we have so little to go on?  I don’t want to make a generalization but who are players who should have been at other levels that were held down?  And, on the other hand has there been even one guy on a fast track?  I see no real strong reason to say either....Comparing today’s regime and evaluating them against the style of the ones before it has little value.  I trust the new more than the old, but I trusted the old too.  No biggie.

Also, I would place my agreement with what will be coming from the organization’s side of the table  as far as offers or selling points. Opportunity.  The major league players and their contact status would probably have very little bearing on these players years and several developmental rungs away from reaching them. 
Some of these kids will be out for a cash grab, some will want playing time and a chance to prove themselves.  That’s one side of the bargaining table.

When the O’s offer someone a chance to sign on and rise, there will be competition to fortify that process and there will be spots available at multiple levels.  That’s actual.  
How many innings, at-bats, starts, appearances are truly available and going to be distributed is up for debate.  The O’s have smart personnel people in place to determine that.  

 

 

Sisco and Stewart could have made the team out of ST.  Diaz.  To me the only reason not to give Mountcastle a September callup last year was to game his clock.

 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Eric-OH said:

Ok, I hear ya.  There’s two guys that have a big role in what the O’s will be.  
And also two guys who probably don’t and may have missed their window.  Mountcastle is definitely one, and it’s obvious what’s going on with him.  He’s done all he can do, I fully agree.

If you see that as enough evidence to make an assessment I can understand it.  I’m looking for lots more and guys who are the meat of the rebuild.  If you want to say a GM’s system graduates players slowly because Sisco or DJ Stewart aren’t big leaguers we don’t see it the same way.

 
That’s ok, I’m willing to listen.  Maybe I think more 5-7 years ahead than 1-3.  Either way there’s better talent on the organizational roster and that’s priority no 1.

Those are the ones that I feel were held back.  i also can't think of anyone that I would say was promoted aggressively.   Hall and Rodriguez could have been pushed.  Only reason Grenier got promoted was to make more room for Hall.

I think it is flat out wrong to suggest that signing with the O's will fast-track an MLB career.

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

29 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Sisco and Stewart could have made the team out of ST.  Diaz.  To me the only reason not to give Mountcastle a September callup last year was to game his clock.

 

I really doubt a non-drafted college pitcher is going to stay away from the Orioles, who desperately need pitching, because they are so shellshocked DJ freaking Stewart didn't make the team out of Spring Training. 

I know it seems like a million years ago now, but DJ Stewart did make it to the O's last year and promptly tried to field a fly ball with his face.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

I really doubt a non-drafted college pitcher is going to stay away from the Orioles, who desperately need pitching, because they are so shellshocked DJ freaking Stewart didn't make the team out of Spring Training. 

I know it seems like a million years ago now, but DJ Stewart did make it to the O's last year and promptly tried to field a fly ball with his face.

Are you paying attention?

I wasn't suggesting that players won't sign with the O's because of Stewart.  I'm saying that the expert was stating things that were completely at odds with how the farm was run last season.

I'm not criticizing Elias.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Eric-OH said:

Ok guy.  I tried.  Base your opinion on one year (you just wrote last season) and two completely fringe roster types if you’d like.  
I’m allowed to agree anywhere and what I agreed with is that the O’s will be selling and have something to sell. Feel free to see it differently.  

Your posts are too critical and it seems you don’t always have room to understand people’s different views.  You’re the only one.  Not cool.  It’s a pattern where you try hard to make evidence to fortify your own takes.  No hard feelings but we also disagree on Hall, GRod and most certainly Grenier.  I like the differing opinions. I’m not going to insult your point of view.  Don’t make this stuff not fun for others.  

I mentioned Diaz and Mountcastle, both of which you agreed with me on, how is that basing my opinion on two completely fringe roster types?

Would you say that the O's were aggressive promoting anyone last year?   

Some experts thought that Hall's issues with command was exacerbated by his opposition being overwhelmed and refusing to swing.  Doesn't that sound like someone that could have benefited from a promotion late in the year?

I think Mr Sampson's take was worthy of criticism. 

I won't reciprocate in making a critique of your posting habits since that isn't fun for others.