What a bunch of sad-sack losers

[Frobby]

The difference is that when Frobby breaks down and shows his frustration it means the last line of patient established fans has now been broken by the Orioles perennial assault on suckage. The double standard exists because people recognize Frobby's level headedness.

I agree a lot of turnover is still needed. But I wonder why people are despairing so much. Everyone on this board knew going into the season that this was not a season about the team, and that the record didn't matter. Sure its rough that the team is playing horribly, but they have also been through a lot of injuries. For those citing the Reds as a team that is succeeding right now there is only one thing you have to look at. Harang, Volquez, Cueto, and Arroyo....all started the season in the rotation and all started last time through their rotation. When is the last time the Orioles have had that type of stability.

I will concede all of the injuries to the pitching staff. As I said in my initial post, when the Orioles' pitching was simply getting shellacked day after day, I could understand it. I'm sure I could find 50 posts I wrote saying that there was little Trembley or the everyday players could do about the attrition to the pitchers.

What has me frustrated now is the offense. We scored a total of 5 runs this weekend. Since August 18, the team has failed to score 5 runs in 21 of the 30 games it has played. This from a team that was averaging well over 5 runs a game up to that point.

I think the hitters got impatient because of all the poorly pitched games, but now they simply aren't doing their jobs.

I'm not so much frustrated by the record, as I am by the fact that the team seems to have given up.

[osfan83]

I will concede all of the injuries to the pitching staff. As I said in my initial post, when the Orioles' pitching was simply getting shellacked day after day, I could understand it. I'm sure I could find 50 posts I wrote saying that there was little Trembley or the everyday players could do about the attrition to the pitchers.

What has me frustrated now is the offense. We scored a total of 5 runs this weekend. Since August 18, the team has failed to score 5 runs in 21 of the 30 games it has played. This from a team that was averaging well over 5 runs a game up to that point.

I think the hitters got impatient because of all the poorly pitched games, but now they simply aren't doing their jobs.

I'm not so much frustrated by the record, as I am by the fact that the team seems to have given up.

They have given up, just like they give up every year at this time. We need a manager, who is willing to send a message to the team about playing hard, rather than worry so much about showing respect to the veterans.

[Satyr3206]

If the O's had played the first 3 months of the season at a .370 clip I think we all would have understood. The problem is this team has done nothing to improve.

McPhail has a year and a half under his belt and the major league club is no better than it was before he came on board. Trembley has a season and a half to instill his philosophies, and this team mails it in at the end of the season the same way it did begore he got there.

If this team wins 72 games and plays under .400 ball the last 40 games next year, you really will have to question if McPhail/Trembley are any better than the last few sets of jokers to run this mess of an organization.

I disagree. Wieters is the #1 prospect IN ALL OF BASEBALL. Tillman is rated as one of the top 10 pitching prospects in all of baseball. Matusz was the most polished pitcher in the draft this year. The MiL pitching is probably in the top 5 in baseball.

If you don't see the improvement of the Franchise as a whole then nothing I bring to your attention will change your mind.

[osfan83]

I disagree. Wieters is the #1 prospect IN ALL OF BASEBALL. Tillman is rated as one of the top 10 pitching prospects in all of baseball. Matusz was the most polished pitcher in the draft this year. The MiL pitching is probably in the top 5 in baseball.

If you don't see the improvement of the Franchise as a whole then nothing I bring to your attention will change your mind.

Read what I said.

"no better at the Major League level".

[Satyr3206]

They have given up, just like they give up every year at this time. We need a manager, who is willing to send a message to the team about playing hard, rather than worry so much about showing respect to the veterans.

I think a new manager might be needed. Trembley says respect the game then puts Tejeda in with a broken wrist to keep his streak going. Or watches R. Hernandez dog it day after day and keeps putting him in the lineup. Or plays Millar when Montanez and Salazar are better bats. And keeps playing Payton when Scott or Montanez are viable options. And tells his pitchers not to come close to throwing at anyone which takes half the plate away from them.

Can you tell which way I lean?

[Satyr3206]

Read what I said.

"no better at the Major League level".

The ML team can't get better until the MiL teams get better. It takes some time.

[Frobby]

They have given up, just like they give up every year at this time. We need a manager, who is willing to send a message to the team about playing hard, rather than worry so much about showing respect to the veterans.

I have been a big supporter of Dave Trembley, but I don't like what I'm seeing from him right now. I'm not concerned about his lineup decisions, but frankly, he seems tight as a drum and I think it is rubbing off on the team. And I saw this last year too. He's gone from being a very self-confident and positive manager to a guy who looks like he's just waiting to see what is going to go wrong next. Even when they win he seems overly tense.

I will not be in favor of extending him beyond 2009 unless I see a team who plays all the way through the end of the season next year.

[Fan4Life]

The ML team can't get better until the MiL teams get better. It takes some time.

How long have we been singing that tune? Doesn't invalidate it, but we don't have to like the results so far.

[Satyr3206]

I have been a big supporter of Dave Trembley, but I don't like what I'm seeing from him right now. I'm not concerned about his lineup decisions, but frankly, he seems tight as a drum and I think it is rubbing off on the team. And I saw this last year too. He's gone from being a very self-confident and positive manager to a guy who looks like he's just waiting to see what is going to go wrong next. Even when they win he seems overly tense.

I will not be in favor of extending him beyond 2009 unless I see a team who plays all the way through the end of the season next year.

I agree but I don't think he has the stones to sit some of the Vets. Some of them are in decline and some don't hustle and he keeps running them out there. He needs to go read Leo Durocher's book.

[Fan4Life]

The funny thing is if certain posters on this board posted this, they would be getting slammed...Welcome to OH double standard.

You didn't just realize this I hope..

[jimbones]

If Trembley brings his right hand man, Kevin Millar back in '09, we will be reassured that this team will not quit and play the game the right way in spring training. Its like a broken record every September. Batters giving at bats away, I don't see this team playing the game to win at all as promised by Trembley and Millar. I agree with an earliar poster who see's the Royals, Pirates and Nats playing harder than this team. To keep saying every September that we are playing for a high draft pick just gets old.

[NewMarketSean]

The ML team can't get better until the MiL teams get better. It takes some time.

Frederick has won 2 championships in the last 4 years. Bowie made the playoffs this year. Yet the O's still finish 25 games out of first place year in and year out.

Granted, the MiL still have a long way to go... namely, developing a positional prospect for once, but the MiL has gotten better. To look at the O's you wouldn't know it though.

[nadecir]

You can only reach one conclusion based on Frobby's analysis of the late season play of the Orioles: the Orioles,as an organization, at the end of a their losing seasons just don't have what it takes to compete anymore.

Take a look at the OPS by player in September in 2008, compared to their season long OPS:

               Year  SeptAubrey Huff     .928  .789Nick Markakis   .891  .757Brian Roberts   .834  .752Luke Scott      .831  .608Melvin Mora     .823  .607Kevin Millar    .725  .543R. Hernandez    .714  .645Jay Payton      .650  .437

Every one of the bunch is down in September. Many of these guys have an OPS that is at least .100 points lower in September. In reality the situation is even worse than shown, since September is bringing down the year long OPS for all of these guys.

Every year at the end of the season it's something. Some years it is pitching, some years it is the hitting, but in recent years lackadaisical play from our team defines the end of the Orioles season.

What can the Orioles organization do? The players who have given up should be called out by the managers, coaches, and front office personnel. I really don't care if the players' fragile egos are affected. No more extending managers who can't get their players to compete in September. Clean house with the players if you have to. Call kids up from the minors, and make the veterans ride the bench completely if these guys are just going to mail it in come September.

Get some players and coaches who have the backbone to fight when the chips are down. If these players won't do it, find some who will.

What is a true Orioles fan to do? Demand accountability from your team. If you are a season ticket holder or a fan that goes to many games, or someone who cares about your team, tell the Orioles that in no uncertain terms you want a team that doesn't roll over in September. Call your ticket representative, send MacPhail a letter, or fax someone in the front office and tell them you are disgusted with this team's late season's play. Ask pointed questions about the Orioles record in September the last seven years at every chance with Orioles officials. Post on the internet in places that the Orioles officials might read that you are tired of the Orioles giving up at the end of the year.

The bottom line is that players, coaches, and front office personnel have to held accountable for the team's embarrassing play at the end of the year. Give me players who fight to the last out of the last inning of the season, coaches who bench players who won't put maximum effort into winning at the end of the season, and a front office who finds players who will fight to the end of the season.

Time for all of us true Orioles fans to take a stand for Frobby's revolution. No more excuses. Field a team fights to the last out of the season, or field a completely different one. Fight to end end as a team or find others who will. Viva Frobby's Revolucion!

[Jagwar]

Didn't Frobby start a thread exactly like this one last September?

[SilentJames]

Losing those games by close scores doesn't mollify me at all. Against mediocre pitching we did virtually nothing in those games, and I just saw no life in the players at all. And you are right, it's not those two games by themselves. We are 7-25 in the last 32 and that is a disgrace.

The fact that we have had 11 losing seasons in a row does not bother me nearly as much as the way this team just seems to give up in mid-August every season. No other team, no matter how bad, has done this as consistently as the Oroles. I'm absolutely sick of it.

Yeah, but I think that comes back to the pathetic state of our minor league system. During September call-ups we haven't had anyone to really "call-up" over the last 11 years.

I can't think of many that stayed on and became legit parts of the team at all.

The september collapse is just another symptom of the virus that has plagued the Orioles for this stretch:

- No farm system

- Bad financial decisions

- Injuries

- Competing against teams that spend three-four times as much

I watched what i could, before I had to go to bed, and I didn't see the boys lolly-gagging around at all. They got out to a lead, and the Yankees bats got to a rookie pitcher who pitched well - just not well enough.

The Yankees bullpen has been very solid since the break and we just got beat. It sucks getting beaten by the yankees, it REALLY sucks. It sucks watching the team collapse again - it really REALLY sucks.

But I don't think the guys phoned anything in last night or this series.