Greene being forced out of San Diego?

[SHAWN555]

Don't get me wrong... I see what you and another poster are saying about better stats on the road, but... is a 270 career batting avg. (not even covering his performance in AL parks, really better than having a potentially great bullpen arm in Dhernandez or Beato (if he ever materializes)?

I know the truly great SS are going to fetch a heftier trade return, but I just don't care to see someone with prospect value for a 29 year old SS with okay stats on the road.

You answer your own question here.

Greene is an established solid major league shortstop. Hernandez and Beato are prospects, nothing more than that at this point.

I think we could get away with giving up less than Hernandez and Beato, but if thats what it would take to get the deal done we have to do it.

[blueberryale77]

In that case, there could be no amount of money to offer the Padres that would make them take on Ramon. Who knows? Just an idea.

I suspect that would be the case, unfortunately. It just had to be his old team.

[LookinUp]

I'm confused. Why would you offer that much for Greene? If you don't want DCab, then don't offer him arbitration. You're taking on salary for no reason. Force them to take on salary - Walker, Baez, or Ramon - to make it fair.

Because nobody short of you, Mackus and me seem to be actually considering that he was worse last year than our own short stops. They're ignoring that his BA was hovering just above .200 both home and away, and they're ignoring that his defense has worsened as well.

Look, if we can get him for cheap it's certainly worth a flyer as a buy low type of guy. However, there's no way I'd sign this guy to an extension until he shows us that he's a decent player.

I think that anyone willing to give up David Hernandez or Nolan Reimold for Greene really need to go look at his stats this year. Maybe it was an aberration, but maybe it wasn't.

[CrimsonTribe]

Because nobody short of you, Mackus and me seem to be actually considering that he was worse last year than our own short stops. They're ignoring that his BA was hovering just above .200 both home and away, and they're ignoring that his defense has worsened as well.

Look, if we can get him for cheap it's certainly worth a flyer as a buy low type of guy. However, there's no way I'd sign this guy to an extension until he shows us that he's a decent player.

I think that anyone willing to give up David Hernandez or Nolan Reimold for Greene really need to go look at his stats this year. Maybe it was an aberration, but maybe it wasn't.

I'm in agreement that neither D. Hernandez nor Reimold should be given up for Greene. Beato, Penn, DCab, Ramon, sure... go right ahead.

[blueberryale77]

Because nobody short of you, Mackus and me seem to be actually considering that he was worse last year than our own short stops. They're ignoring that his BA was hovering just above .200 both home and away, and they're ignoring that his defense has worsened as well.

Look, if we can get him for cheap it's certainly worth a flyer as a buy low type of guy. However, there's no way I'd sign this guy to an extension until he shows us that he's a decent player.

I think that anyone willing to give up David Hernandez or Nolan Reimold for Greene really need to go look at his stats this year. Maybe it was an aberration, but maybe it wasn't.

I think a lot of the disparities in what people are willing to give up have to do with what we expect from the prospects being discussed. I've never been a big Reimold fan, so I'm not opposed to giving him up... but if I prized him anywhere near as highly as some on here do, I wouldn't.

I also think though that we're basing a lot off of one bad half season. Surely it does lower Greene's value... but it doesn't make him without value. He and the Padres management clearly weren't seeing eye to eye on some things before 2008 even started, so I think distraction could be a big part of his struggles this year. He seems to me like a classic change of scenery guy. We shouldn't give up the farm, and I'd rather not even give up someone like Hernandez who has been pretty much all positives so far even though he's not a huge prospect, but we should be able to work something out using some of our guys who could use changes of scenery (particularly Cabrera and/or Penn... maybe that includes Reimold too because he does seem to be at a bit of a stalemate with management over not getting called up in September or invited to Spring Training this year).

[Moose Milligan]

I'm confused. Why would you offer that much for Greene? If you don't want DCab, then don't offer him arbitration. You're taking on salary for no reason. Force them to take on salary - Walker, Baez, or Ramon - to make it fair.

Cause CaBBrera is horrible and Penn's value right now is pretty low. I think CaBBrera will be awful for his entire career but Penn might just need a change of scenery and a fresh start.

[Mackus]

I've never been a big Reimold fan, so I'm not opposed to giving him up... but if I prized him anywhere near as highly as some on here do, I wouldn't.

This is a huge error in thinking. Whether you think he'll make it or not, that doesn't change what his actual value is, and its sure as hell a whole lot higher than Khalil Greene's value right now. He's a top-100 prospect (admittedly, back end of the top-100). If you (or the O's FO) decide he's got holes in his swing that he won't be able to fix at the MLB level, thats fine, just don't give him away at 80 cents on the dollar because of it. For every team or scout thats given up on a player, there usually is another that likes him. So trade him if you don't like him for whatever reason (though theres little reason to not like Reimold) but don't give him away for less than he's worth, thats just bad business.

[Frobby]

This is a huge error in thinking. Whether you think he'll make it or not, that doesn't change what his actual value is, and its sure as hell a whole lot higher than Khalil Greene's value right now. He's a top-100 prospect (admittedly, back end of the top-100).

No he's not. He wasn't in the top 20 in the Eastern League. He's probably not in the top 5 in our organization. I'd be very surprised to find him on the top 100 list of any credible pubication. He's still a solid prospect, but he's not top 100 at this point.

[Mackus]

No he's not. He wasn't in the top 20 in the Eastern League. He's probably not in the top 5 in our organization. I'd be very surprised to find him on the top 100 list of any credible pubication. He's still a solid prospect, but he's not top 100 at this point.

He was 91 coming into the year and he went out and posted an 870 OPS w/ 25 HRs while cutting the biggest flaw in his game (strikeouts) by over a third. He's a bit old for AA, but I think it would be a joke to be less confidant of his abilities going into 2009 than you were going into 2008.

If he's not in the top 100 then the people choosing either have screwed up the rankings or screwed up coming into the season and shouldn't have ranked him as highly then.

[Crazysilver03]

No he's not. He wasn't in the top 20 in the Eastern League. He's probably not in the top 5 in our organization. I'd be very surprised to find him on the top 100 list of any credible pubication. He's still a solid prospect, but he's not top 100 at this point.

I would argue that Reimold is our 5th best prospect and according to Your Official top 30 Prospect list, a majority of posters believe as such.

Also remember that the league lists are put together by managers, not by BA. Besides, he might slip in on the backside of the top 100 because of the graduation of several top prospects. I dont think he will, but it is possible.

[Fairfax Bird]

Daniel Cabrera for Khalil Greene.

I said this one month's ago. Makes sense for both sides.

[Crazysilver03]

I said this one month's ago. Makes sense for both sides.

Not if San Diego is trying to save more than $3M. That would be the difference between contracts of the two players for 2009 if Cabrera doesnt see even a modest increase next year.

If I am San Diego, I am trying to dump his entire $6.1M and pick up someone who is making the league minimum.

[Remember The Alomar]

No he's not. He wasn't in the top 20 in the Eastern League. He's probably not in the top 5 in our organization. I'd be very surprised to find him on the top 100 list of any credible pubication. He's still a solid prospect, but he's not top 100 at this point.

Baseball America disagrees:

Prospect Rankings*

2006 - 99th ranked Major League prospect

2006 - 4th ranked organizational prospect for Baltimore Orioles

2007 - 3rd ranked organizational prospect for Baltimore Orioles

2008 - 91st ranked Major League prospect

2008 - 4th ranked organizational prospect for Baltimore Orioles

*According to Baseball America

[Sports Guy]

Boy are people overrating his value.

HE WAS AWFUL THIS YEAR and yes, he is owed a lot of money next year.

Paying 7 million for a player coming off an awful year isn't something teams will be excited to do.

In the past, I suggested Beato and McCrory for him.

There is no Reimold, Liz, Penn or another prospect/player like that should be dealt for him.

[allstar1579]

Man is it getting ugly in here. The disparity between value of prospects and players is just all over the place.

Ok, so to hit as much as I can in the 5 pages I missed since this morning...Greene's value is down, but not to the point of being non-tendered, which is what people seem to be thinking if we are going to get him for some spare parts being tossed around. If the Pads are dumping salary, they are not going to take on the $5 mil DCab is going to make, so that is out, not to mention that we are probably going to NT him, so he's a FA if people wait it out. Greene is still an under 30, SS with a good arm, decent glove, and 84 HR in 6 years hitting in the worst hitters park in baseball. Put him in OPACY and his HR go up 50%, I'll call it now.

He still has some value, not top prospect value, but mid-prospect value, and seeing that DHernandez is what our, 7th or 8th best prospect, one who people will tell you gives up too high of a BB/9IP doesn't make him untouchable. Don't get me wrong, I like him, and I'd rather keep him, but I think it's going to take a pitcher in this mold, and one of the pitchers we are losing patience with, Penn, Liz, Beato, Bascom to get a deal done. It could just as easily be Berkin, or Mickolio, or Hoey or something like that. But to think the Pads are GIVING him away is a mistake, he is still a SS which carries a certain premium on it's own, he hits for power, not so much avg., and will play good defense.

That being said, I don't think Reimold should go just yet, because of our lack of positional prospects, but if it took him to do a deal like this and plug a hole while leaving enough parts to still be competitive, (Scott, Montanez) you do it. This is about the next 5 years, not just next season.