Tracking Ex Oriole Thread

[Chromehill]

46 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

Over six seasons, Gausman's pitching coaches with the O's included Rick Adair, Bill Castro, Dave Wallace and Roger McDowell. He was jerked around from minors (where he had more pitching coaches) to majors and back again, and was shuttled from the rotation to the bullpen. 

If an organization can't provide consistent instruction and coaching throughout the organization, then the pitcher can't know whose instruction to follow. This needs to be addressed in the rebuild if it hasn't been, already.

A lot can be said for continuity in coaches and instruction throughout an organization. 

Regarding Gausman going forward, a few things to keep in mind:

1.  Left the AL East for the NL

2.  Orioles were a bad defensive team

3.  Braves are a good defensive team

4.  Gausman was pitching well for the Orioles before being traded

5.  Gausman has always pitched a lot better in the second half of the season. 

Admittedly, unless the Orioles sign VVM, I am not sure what the urgency of the trade was. 

 

[Aglets]

Here are the facts:

He is striking out batters at a lower rate than when he was here.

He is walking batters at about the same rate.

He is allowing fewer hits per 9 innings.........and FAR fewer HR / 9.  This seems to be the root cause of his improved ERA.

So if you think the coaches in ATL have done a great job at teaching him how to have his pitches hit more directly at fielders.........then I think it makes sense to criticize the O's for not doing the same.

Personally I can't quite get there.

[Redskins Rick]

Shoop showing signs of life.

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14

4

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2

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.357

.438

.78

Last 7 games

 

[Moose Milligan]

8 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

This is an extremely small sample size. Let's wait a full season before we crown him the next Arrieta.

However, it's well known that leaving the AL immediately improves a pitcher by 1/2 run. Subtract another 1/2 run for leaving the AL East. Perhaps another 1/2 run for leaving the Orioles organization. Then a mediocre 4.0 ERA pitcher all of a sudden is a very good 2.5 ERA one.

 

No, no, no.  Small sample sizes won't prohibit anyone to go off the rails and judge a trade after 30 seconds because they just didn't like it to begin with.  Anything to fit a narrative of being right.

[esmd]

Hess has had his ups and downs this year, but overall I like what I've seen from him.  I think he's got potential to be a decent starter for us.

[cheecks]

Gausman tells coaching staff he's more comfortable pitching from the stretch, so they let him do it the whole game. Gausman has been filthy ever since. Go figure.

https://www.12up.com/posts/6141394-braves-let-kevin-gausman-pitch-from-the-stretch-the-entire-game-and-he-was-filthy/partners/40920

 

 

[Diehard_O's_Fan]

This makes the Orioles look absolutely dumb if you ask me. It is so frustrating to have guys like Gausman and Arrieta dominate for other teams. I expect Gausman to be a very good pitcher for the Braves. I still cannot believe the Orioles traded him especially for the players they got in return.

[bpilktree67]

8 minutes ago, Diehard_O's_Fan said:

This makes the Orioles look absolutely dumb if you ask me. It is so frustrating to have guys like Gausman and Arrieta dominate for other teams. I expect Gausman to be a very good pitcher for the Braves. I still cannot believe the Orioles traded him especially for the players they got in return.

He had a whip over 160 most of the year here which means he was pitching from the stretch plenty and wasn't that great.  

[weams]

33 minutes ago, bpilktree67 said:

He had a whip over 160 most of the year here which means he was pitching from the stretch plenty and wasn't that great.  

It was early and the AL East. 

[OFFNY]

46 minutes ago, bpilktree67 said:

 

He had a whip over 1.60 most of the year here, which means that he was pitching from the stretch plenty, and wasn't that great.  

 

o

 

No, he didn't.

April 23rd was only his 5th start of the season, and his WHIP went down from 1.571 to 1.310 in that game.

After that, his WHIP never went higher than 1.402, and that was on June 9th.

When he left, his WHIP was 1.379.

 

o

[Aglets]

On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 7:30 AM, Aglets said:

Here are the facts:

He is striking out batters at a lower rate than when he was here.

He is walking batters at about the same rate.

He is allowing fewer hits per 9 innings.........and FAR fewer HR / 9.  This seems to be the root cause of his improved ERA.

So if you think the coaches in ATL have done a great job at teaching him how to have his pitches hit more directly at fielders.........then I think it makes sense to criticize the O's for not doing the same.

Personally I can't quite get there.

Re-upping as often as people continue to ignore it and make claims that fly in the face of the data.

[Bradysburns]

Gausman's not only doing well in Atlanta. They're calling him their stopper. 

https://www.mlb.com/news/kevin-gausman-bullpen-shut-out-marlins/c-292020178

Part of the issue I (and some others) have with dismissing Gausman... People knocked his mental game a lot. I heard this was who he was, countless times. I never heard: "This is who he is, but he'll be great somewhere else." Many people here devalued his talents, because they were understandably frustrated with his lack of consistency at times. But I think they were wrong to conflate his results with his talent. 

And now that he's actually dominating with Atlanta, yes... those of us who were big KG fans are nodding our heads a bit. This is what we expected. If he was sucking wind in Atlanta, you'd be nodding your head, and we'd be talking about small sample sizes, adjusting to a new league, etc. That's just the way it goes. 

I still hope Juan Carlos Encarnacion will surprise and become an upper-tier third baseman for us... But I think we got the worst of this deal. (I graded it a D, I believe, at the time. I would upgrade that to a B- if we get two MLB contributors out of it, plus sign VVM and his brother... regardless of how Gausman performs.)

[Hallas]

SSS but Manny is showing he's still an elite 3B... but perhaps just as importantly, he's apparently improved his defense at SS too.  He's now at -8.8 UZR/150 after leaving the O's at -11.9.  And he's got a bunch of good defensive plays on the Dodgers highlight feed.

Makes me wonder if he was sandbagging a little bit on defense with the O's, since we are terrible and he doesn't want to get hurt for a terrible team in a contract year.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Hallas said:

SSS but Manny is showing he's still an elite 3B... but perhaps just as importantly, he's apparently improved his defense at SS too.  He's now at -8.8 UZR/150 after leaving the O's at -11.9.  And he's got a bunch of good defensive plays on the Dodgers highlight feed.

Makes me wonder if he was sandbagging a little bit on defense with the O's, since we are terrible and he doesn't want to get hurt for a terrible team in a contract year.

They just coached him up.

 

On a more serious note Manny was bad at SS before the O's were a confirmed bad club.  It appeared to me that his defense had already started trending up before the trade.

[Hallas]

20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

They just coached him up.

 

On a more serious note Manny was bad at SS before the O's were a confirmed bad club.  It appeared to me that his defense had already started trending up before the trade.

I thought it was trending up but it was more of a "better than terrible" trending up, rather than actual above-average.  His UZR/150 is +6.2 at SS with the Dodgers.

edit to add: When he wasn't playing for a terrible team in 2016, he was slightly above average at SS while covering for Hardy.