Grading the July 2018 Trades: an update

[LA2]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Because he’s sucked so far. He has moments of competence surrounded by eons of terrible. He could be many things, but what he is is terrible he is probably also expendable which is why I don’t expect to see him around in January.

Hard to stuff even one "eon" into less than 48 innings pitched over three seasons by a reliever who is presently 25 years old. Give him and us a break.

Chris Davis--that's someone whose seasons can engulf "eons of terrible"....

[HowAboutThat]

15 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Hard to stuff even one "eon" into less than 48 innings pitched over three seasons by a reliever who is presently 25 years old. Give him and us a break.

Chris Davis--that's someone whose seasons can engulf "eons of terrible"....

Fair enough. I’ve seen all I need to see, of him, and Carroll and-sadly, because I was a big fan-Sulser too, and others. I will be very surprised if they are on the forty-man in January. You disagree and that’s fine and we shall see anon...

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

How many Inherited runs did he allow? I don’t know, but reliever era is deceptive. He has a high K rate and a very high BB rate. His FIP is low, which is in his favor, but nah.

He will be here till someone better comes along. Wojo got a long leash, maybe Phillips will too, but I don’t think it will be long. 

He has allowed 3 of 5 inherited runners to score, all during garbage time.  2 of those were in the same outing, when we already were down 5 runs; the other came when we were down 3 runs.  3 of 5 isn’t good, but it’s a pretty minuscule sample size.    Major league average is 30% this year.  O’s are at 31%.    

[HowAboutThat]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He has allowed 3 of 5 inherited runners to score, all during garbage time.  2 of those were in the same outing, when we already were down 5 runs; the other came when we were down 3 runs.  3 of 5 isn’t good, but it’s a pretty minuscule sample size.    Major league average is 30% this year.  O’s are at 31%.    

Thank you for the information. Small sample size, sure, but it still does reinforce that he’s meh at best. 
They gave Wojo what a year and a half? And he’s not actually gone yet. I don’t see any need to keep Phillips.

[SteveA]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

He has allowed 3 of 5 inherited runners to score, all during garbage time.  2 of those were in the same outing, when we already were down 5 runs; the other came when we were down 3 runs.  3 of 5 isn’t good, but it’s a pretty minuscule sample size.    Major league average is 30% this year.  O’s are at 31%.    

No time is garbage time for Philip.  He was complaining when Phillips was pitching in a game where we were down about 4 or 5 runs in the late innings.  He wanted someone better.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

Thank you for the information. Small sample size, sure, but it still does reinforce that he’s meh at best. 
They gave Wojo what a year and a half? And he’s not actually gone yet. I don’t see any need to keep Phillips.

I was surprised to learn that Phillips has 9 consecutive scoreless outings.   I’ve never been too impressed with him.  

[LA2]

50 minutes ago, SteveA said:

No time is garbage time for Philip.  He was complaining when Phillips was pitching in a game where we were down about 4 or 5 runs in the late innings.  He wanted someone better.

I think the similarity in their names annoys him j/k. Nine straight scoreless outings should be cheered, not meh'd; that's 1/6 of the elapsed season. 1.50ERA+, 12.6 SO/9, and an increase of SO/W from .83 to 2.0 to 2.5 during 2018-20 is quite an improvement--maybe even more significant than how many of only 5 inherited runners scored.

[now]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Schoop made $7.5M in 2019 vs Villar $4.8M. So we netted $2.7M plus more than 3 WAR and Easton Lucas. I don't know how that gets a C-.

Again, for sure I agree the deal was a plus for that one year. But meh since that may be it. Unless I'm missing sth with Lucas...? Will certainly be happy if he's another Lopez.

[now]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I was surprised to learn that Phillips has 9 consecutive scoreless outings.   I’ve never been too impressed with him.  

I actually missed these last two dominant outings but after seeing what Roch had to say, went back and watched. Those were indeed impressive. (Zimmerman, not so much).

[HowAboutThat]

1 hour ago, SteveA said:

No time is garbage time for Philip.  He was complaining when Phillips was pitching in a game where we were down about 4 or 5 runs in the late innings.  He wanted someone better.

Don’t you?

[sportsfan8703]

15 hours ago, now said:

With recent improvements of Tate and Phillips (hard to imagine the guy blasted here is the same pitcher Roch was praising today: see https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2020/09/evan-phillips-rolling-in-return-trips.html) and arrival of Kremer and Zimmerman, it invites an update of the mega trades of July 2018.

SSS of course, but if Phillips has turned the corner, and Zimmerman lives up to reports from the camp, the Guasman trade starts looking better. The same can be said withTate in the Britton trade. Looking back at my thumbnail grades at the time of those trades, maybe it's time for an updated evaluation (my 2018 grade in parentheses). Of course, with many of these it's still too soon to tell for sure, so again it's just updating my best, amateur fan's guess. Also, I'm now adding an overall grade. What do you think?

For Manny Machado we received from the Dodgers-- overall grade: B

B (A-) : 21-year old OF Yusniel Diaz 
A (B+) : 22-year old RHSP Dean Kremer
C+ (C) : 22-year old 3B/2B Rylan Bannon
B- (C+) : 21-year old RHRP Zach Pop
F (D): 26-year old UTIL Breyvic Valera

 
For Zach Britton we received from the Yankees-- overall grade: C-

B+ (C) : 24-year old RHSP Dillon Tate
D (C): 25-year old RHRP Cody Carroll
C- (B-) : 24-year old LHSP Josh Rogers

For Kevin Gausman we received from the Braves-- C

D (C-) : 20-year old 3B Jean Carlos Encarnacion
D (C-) : 23-year old Catcher Brett Cumberland
C+ (D+) : 23-year old LHSP Bruce Zimmerman
B (C+) : 23-year old RHRP Evan Phillips

For Jonathan Schoop we received from the Brewers-- C-

F (C) : 22-year old RHSP Luis Ortiz
D (C- 18-year old SS Jean Carmona
B (B) : 27-year old Infielder Jonathan Villar

I still think we should’ve gotten more in return, but we also dumped a ton of salary. Just like what Elias did with Cashner, Villar, Bundy, Givens, and Castro. This is what he might do with Alberto and Nunez, this upcoming offseason. 
 

From our big sell off at the 2018 deadline it’s looking like we got,

Bullpen types:

-Tate, Phillips

Starting Pitching:

-Kremer

Swingman:

-Zimmerman

Everyday OF:

-Diaz

?????

-Pop

[Yardball85]

9 hours ago, Philip said:

Thank you for the information. Small sample size, sure, but it still does reinforce that he’s meh at best. 
They gave Wojo what a year and a half? And he’s not actually gone yet. I don’t see any need to keep Phillips.

I hope the Orioles do see a need to keep Phillips.

Also, does the dislike have anything to do with the fact that you guys share a name?  My name is Andrew, but I love Mark Andrews.

[Aristotelian]

8 hours ago, now said:

Again, for sure I agree the deal was a plus for that one year. But meh since that may be it. Unless I'm missing sth with Lucas...? Will certainly be happy if he's another Lopez.

I'm not sure what else you could have wanted. We got a player of more value cheaper and for an additional year of control. You may be disappointed with what we got for Villar but the trade itself was a win IMO. I think this is a deal where you look at the other throw-in players and give the overall deal a C, but that is not how these things work. Just getting Villar makes it at least a B based on how Villar turned out. 

[Just Regular]

Has Schoop really done anything on the other clubs to make the deal a loss?

He's certainly a Duquette-an fully qualified major league player, but neither the Brewers nor Twins used him in October.

And I say that actually having mild interest in him as a Oriole for life PR type thing for 2021 assuming we probably aren't going to Werth-ify Justin Turner, DJ LeMahieu or Marcus Stroman.

[HowAboutThat]

2 hours ago, Yardball85 said:

I hope the Orioles do see a need to keep Phillips.

Also, does the dislike have anything to do with the fact that you guys share a name?  My name is Andrew, but I love Mark Andrews.

Haha no not at all. Besides, he has that extra “L” which is unnecessarily extravagant.