MLB, MLBPA agree to health protocols, 7-inning doubleheaders, runners on second in extras

[connja]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30864253/mlb-mlbpa-agree-health-protocols-7-inning-doubleheaders-runners-second-extras

But no NL DH....at least not yet?

[HowAboutThat]

Stupid. They are telling the fans, “we’re only giving you 7/9th of what you paid for and you’re going to like it.”

stupid.

[HowAboutThat]

10 minutes ago, connja said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30864253/mlb-mlbpa-agree-health-protocols-7-inning-doubleheaders-runners-second-extras

But no NL DH....at least not yet?

They already agreed to the NL DH, I think.

[connja]

2 minutes ago, Philip said:

Stupid. They are telling the fans, “we’re only giving you 7/9th of what you paid for and you’re going to like it.”

stupid.

Aren't most of these single admission - so they are getting 14/9s - rather than the more recent creation of split gate/day-night double headers.

[rudyrooster]

23 minutes ago, Philip said:

They already agreed to the NL DH, I think.

Nope.  No NL DH for this upcoming season.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Seven inning doubleheaders and player on second base in extra innings. Thanks, I hate it.

[CarrRun49]

6 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Seven inning doubleheaders and player on second base in extra innings. Thanks, I hate it.

I don't hate the 7 inning DH's as much as I absolutely hate the runner on second BS

[Frobby]

57 minutes ago, CarrRun49 said:

I don't hate the 7 inning DH's as much as I absolutely hate the runner on second BS

You are in the minority, at least here.

But Fangraphs readers agreed with you.   https://blogs.fangraphs.com/taking-temperatures-on-the-2020-rules-changes/

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, CarrRun49 said:

I don't hate the 7 inning DH's as much as I absolutely hate the runner on second BS

Runner on second is treating the symptom. The disease is 9-inning games that take as long as the 3:50 Oeschger-Cadore 26-inning game.  Since 2015 there have been 231(!) nine-inning games as long as or longer than that 26-inning game a century ago.

If you want normal extra inning games, then fix baseball so that a typical game is closer to two hours than 3:15.

The only way "more baseball is always better" makes any sense is for people who have baseball as the only valuable thing to do with their time.  That's not 99% of the population.  For everyone else they just leave or go to bed, and don't watch the ads and don't buy the concessions so there's no business incentive for eternal games.

[CarrRun49]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

You are in the minority, at least here.

But Fangraphs readers agreed with you.   https://blogs.fangraphs.com/taking-temperatures-on-the-2020-rules-changes/

I did say I hate both.  Just one more than the other.

[spiritof66]

I don't like the man-on-second rule, but I get it. I think I would like it if it called for a runner starting in the 12th or 13th inning. I also don't think I would have a problem if games tied after 15 or 16 innings were treated for all purposes, including the standings, as ties. 

I don't get the seven-inning rule. To me a major-league baseball game scheduled for fewer than nine innings isn't a real game at all. Is this rule supposed to benefit the players, or the owners, or the fans, or the media, or somebody else? Last year, I could see how the players might be indifferent to having some 7-inning games since the shortened season already had trashed any semblance of statistical normalcy. I would think that would be the case this year, with at least the prospect of a full season, players wouldn't want any shorter games, which will deprive them of some chances to enhance their totals of HRs, hits, strikeouts (Jacob deGrom strikeouts, not Chris Davis strikeouts). I'm waiting until division titles (not that they mean that much any more) and playoff spots come down to unscheduled double headers on the last day of the season to see how popular this rule is then.

If playing 18 innings (plus extras) on one day is too taxing for the players on the shortened non-pitcher rosters, let teams add more players for double headers. But play the games. The whole games.

In a better world, given all the problems that baseball has appealing to fans -- slow pace of play/length of games, not enough balls in play, too many pitching changes, the competitive imbalance, the inability of lower-revenue and mid-revenue teams to retain top players, the transparency of bad ball/strike umpiring -- the owners and the union would be looking for ways to improve for its fans the game as it's played, not to make the games different.

[SteveA]

15 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I don't like the man-on-second rule, but I get it. I think I would like it if it called for a runner starting in the 12th or 13th inning. I also don't think I would have a problem if games tied after 15 or 16 innings were treated for all purposes, including the standings, as ties. 

I don't get the seven-inning rule. To me a major-league baseball game scheduled for fewer than nine innings isn't a real game at all. Is this rule supposed to benefit the players, or the owners, or the fans, or the media, or somebody else? Last year, I could see how the players might be indifferent to having some 7-inning games since the shortened season already had trashed any semblance of statistical normalcy. I would think that would be the case this year, with at least the prospect of a full season, players wouldn't want any shorter games, which will deprive them of some chances to enhance their totals of HRs, hits, strikeouts (Jacob deGrom strikeouts, not Chris Davis strikeouts). I'm waiting until division titles (not that they mean that much any more) and playoff spots come down to unscheduled double headers on the last day of the season to see how popular this rule is then.

If playing 18 innings (plus extras) on one day is too taxing for the players on the shortened non-pitcher rosters, let teams add more players for double headers. But play the games. The whole games.

In a better world, given all the problems that baseball has appealing to fans -- slow pace of play/length of games, not enough balls in play, too many pitching changes, the competitive imbalance, the inability of lower-revenue and mid-revenue teams to retain top players, the transparency of bad ball/strike umpiring -- the owners and the union would be looking for ways to improve for its fans the game as it's played, not to make the games different.

It's a Covid rule, and I guess they feel there could still be a lot of Covid postponments this year.   I hope that isn't the case, but who knows.

The Cardinals had to play something like 5 double headers (in addition to single games on nearly every other day) in a 12 or 13 day span.   The 7 inning DH was created for situations like that.

I would hope that with vaccinations, and more people having had it, there will be far fewer instances of a team having to take a week off due to postitive tests and contact tracing this year. so there won't be nearly as many doubleheaders.   But it seems like they are still planning on that contingency.

[spiritof66]

40 minutes ago, SteveA said:

It's a Covid rule, and I guess they feel there could still be a lot of Covid postponements this year.   I hope that isn't the case, but who knows.

The Cardinals had to play something like 5 double headers (in addition to single games on nearly every other day) in a 12 or 13 day span.   The 7 inning DH was created for situations like that.

I would hope that with vaccinations, and more people having had it, there will be far fewer instances of a team having to take a week off due to postitive tests and contact tracing this year. so there won't be nearly as many doubleheaders.   But it seems like they are still planning on that contingency.

I got that and still do: if circumstances are such that you know you can't have a real season, and know it will be a struggle to complete any season at all, you might think changes to the game like the 7-inning rule will help you get by. Some changes for 2020, like the abbreviated schedule that  cut down on travel, surely helped MLB muddle through. I may be wrong, but I don't think the 7-inning rule made much if any contribution to that.

As I understand it, so far the plan for 2021 is to play a full season -- maybe late to start and end, and maybe not quite 162 games but close to it -- with play scheduled across the divisions. I don't understand why, in those circumstances, keeping the 7-inning rule will help the game, and I think it will -- a little, probably not a lot -- cheapen the on-field product. That may change; pandemic circumstances may put the completion of the season in jeopardy. Even if it does, I don't think I would see the seven-inning rule as helpful or a good idea, but I could understand the motivation for it. Right now, I can't. It looks like a solution in search of a problem, when there are lots of other problems that might be addressed with a little bit of thinking and leadership..

[Frobby]

31 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I got that and still do: if circumstances are such that you know you can't have a real season, and know it will be a struggle to complete any season at all, you might think changes to the game like the 7-inning rule will help you get by. Some changes for 2020, like the abbreviated schedule that  cut down on travel, surely helped MLB muddle through. I may be wrong, but I don't think the 7-inning rule made much if any contribution to that.

As I understand it, so far the plan for 2021 is to play a full season -- maybe late to start and end, and maybe not quite 162 games but close to it -- with play scheduled across the divisions. I don't understand why, in those circumstances, keeping the 7-inning rule will help the game, 

They are anticipating having a much greater number of postponements for Covid reasons.   It’s one think to play 3-5 doubleheaders in a year, it’s something else to play 7-10.    

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

They are anticipating having a much greater number of postponements for Covid reasons.   It’s one think to play 3-5 doubleheaders in a year, it’s something else to play 7-10.    

I think they are setting things up to make these permanent changes.