Loewen speaks to Roch

[BaltimoreTerp]

He makes a great point (especially since I just posted it in the other thread :laughlol: ).

[DrLev]

Well, according to me (and I've been a lawyer for 25 years) there's not a chance that this particular "gentleman's agreement" was sufficiently certain to be enforceable as a contract.

Contracts don't have to be in writing to be enforceable (except in certain circumstances), but both sides have to have had a "meeting of the minds" on all material terms of the deal, and understand that they have agreed to be bound.

I defer to you. You've got the experience.

I know you're upset, we're all a bit upset, but don't shoot the messenger.

[Frobby]

I defer to you. You've got the experience.

I know you're upset, we're all a bit upset, but don't shoot the messenger.

Yeah, sorry about the tone of my reply. I hope your fiancee is enjoying law school (insofar as that's possible).

[DrLev]

Yeah, sorry about the tone of my reply. I hope your fiancee is enjoying law school (insofar as that's possible).

No problem. She is enjoying it but she's also constantly stressed out due to the lack of evaluations beyond the winner-take-all final exams.

This whole situation's pretty maddening. The organization seems to be constantly spinning its wheels.

[UMDTerrapins]

What a joke.

The Orioles drafted you #1. Gave you a major league contract right out of junior college with a huge bonus. They developed you. Stood by you after your first major injury. Then they stood by your decision to retire from pitching (with only 29 career starts) to take up hitting. We reached a gentleman's agreement to develop you as a hitter. We sent you to the instructional league and gave you personal training with our ML hitting coach.

But you used your injury to force us into involuntary free agency, and then reneged on your agreement and signed with Toronto without a chance to counter-offer. Shame on you. We got squat for our investment in you....no draft pick...nada.

What players can get away with is astonishing. The Orioles continue to pay Jay Gibbons millions despite being completely useless on a baseball field without drugs. He misrepresented himself as a player and it's cost us huge. But we signed his contract and we're expected to honor it. We have. Why don't the players feel as compelled to honor as well.

If the Orioles pulled the same type of crap that you did, we'd be blacklisted by free agents and fought to the death by the players union. We couldn't.

Let me say this. Only in past year have I been proud of the way the Orioles conducted their business. We got screwed, but I'm damn proud. We did our part. You can't control the self serving and soul-less of the world...you can only do your own personal best.

The Orioles continue to do me proud. Ciao jackass.

[byrdz]

The organization seems to be constantly spinning its wheels.

When they have wheels, but mostly they are falling off.

[DrLev]

When they have wheels, but mostly they are falling off.

Well, the O's seem to think they're this:

<img src=http://www.autolookfinecars.com/images/car%20photos/LAM/03%20Lambo%20Orange.jpg></img>

When in reality, they're more this:

<img src=http://www.linhperfume.com/news/images/oto/bmw_history/bmw_isetta.jpg></img>

(Yes, that is the Steve Urkel car)

[Pedro Cerrano]

You know what? Dipper is right. Screw Adam Loewen.

[utvolzac]

This really is a douschebag move on Loewen's part.

I don't want to wish him to fail, but I certainly won't shed a tear if he never makes it as a hitter.

If he does make it as a hitter, I hope his first at bat is against the O's and we promptly plunk him square in the back with a nice hard fastball.

[CrimsonTribe]

Well, according to me (and I've been a lawyer for 25 years) there's not a chance that this particular "gentleman's agreement" was sufficiently certain to be enforceable as a contract.

Contracts don't have to be in writing to be enforceable (except in certain circumstances), but both sides have to have had a "meeting of the minds" on all material terms of the deal, and understand that they have agreed to be bound.

Not to mention trying to prove that such an agreement existed without some type of written evidence. Practically, and not legally, speaking.

[section18]

UMD is correct. Take the money and run. No class at all. No sympathy from me. I'm surprised at Peter's comments. Young players today are pampered beyond words and made over like they are a celebrity. He is one of those guys. Call it ESP or something but I never felt good about him when he was drafted and never liked his personality. I don't know if it was arrogance or cockiness but he gave me that impression. Others on here can have their opinion and put him on a pedestal. I'm not. He and Jeremy Guthrie are 180 degrees apart. AJ will make us forget him in a hurry.

[MChance]

Screw him to hell I say! To hell!

[BaltimoreTerp]

He turned me into a newt!

[TakebackOPACY]

Screw him! Had to do what was best for "him?" How about the fact that we gave him a Major League contract as a draft signing, and the fact that he has been pitching on the ML team for us BECAUSE of that and NOT because he was ready to be a major leaguer? I am happy for him that he thinks he is going to reach his dream, but I hope to God that he never makes it out of A Ball.

One silver lining here, and even in this I am reading between the lines, but he sees a chance to start in Toronto that he doesn't see here. Hmmm....what first baseman do we have in our system that would block him? Oh right. None. So maybe he knows something we don't? Maybe MacPhail said, "Hey pal, Big Tex has got first base covered for us for the next 8 years, so why don't you take a chance in Toronto?" Or maybe MacPhail said, "You know Millar is Trembley's boy, and he's got first base covered for us for the next 8 years, so why don't you take a chance in Toronto?" :scratchchinhmm:

Two observations:

1. We gave Loewen a major league contract because that's what it took to sign him. We could have elected to pay him a bigger bonus, but to avoid that we offered a major league contract as an inducement. That was a business decision, not some favor we did for Loewen. We did that because we thought that was best for the team under the circumstances.

2. Loewen was pitching on the ML team because he was the most major league-ready pitcher we had. In case you've forgotten, Loewen did not need to be on the ML roster until Opening Day 2007. However, in May 2006, when Hayden Penn went down with appendicitis on the eve of his call-up, Loewen was the next-best option we had. This had nothing to do with his contract, and everything to do with how he was performing at the time. And he definitely pitched well enough in 2006 to earn a shot at the rotation for 2007, and then he pitched well enough in spring training 2007 to deserve to be in the rotation on Opening Day. He earned his way to the major leagues, and in my opinion he would have been outstanding for us in 2007 if he hadn't gotten hurt.

I'm still stung by his decision, but these points do not hold water.

Sorry I can't provide a link to back this up, so take it for what it's worth. In a recent radio interview, Loewen talked about his minor league experience. He was specifically talking about how he felt his veteran knowledge would make it a lot different the second time through.

He said that when you're going through it, you're always thinking about getting promoted and are eager to get promoted. But in hindsight, he thinks players should usually stay in one level for a whole season, and he wishes he could've done that. I took it to mean, amongst other things, that he regretted pushing for a ML contract and felt it hurt his development.

That said, the state of the O's organization at the time may have resulted in him being rushed anyway.

[Wind Rider]

Was there a significant difference in the salaries offered? Did the Orioles try to do it on the cheap and get burned?