How long do the O’s need to be bad

[survivedc]

12 minutes ago, joelala said:

You wouldn’t want a guy who defends his teammates and the org? I get the whole cheating thing looks bad, but maybe it just doesn’t bother me as much as a lot of other people. And everything I’ve read about Correa is that he’s a great teammate and an extremely hard worker. Sign me up if the price is right. What specifically makes him a jerk? When I think of a player who was a jerk I think of someone like Aubrey Huff, not Correa. 

I’m guessing you didn’t follow his interactions with the media or what other players were saying about him last year

[survivedc]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Lots of guys are jerks.  From all I have heard Mussina was a jerk.  Loved having him on the team.

A LOT of folks think Machado is a jerk.

Machado is a jerk. Or was anyway, haven’t kept up on him as much. But he was drafted and developed by the O’s, not a free agent option. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

41 minutes ago, survivedc said:

The cheating is the genesis of it all. Afterwards instead of apologizing he chose to be abrasive and act like they were victims. He seems to be roundly disliked around baseball.

Should make him have less suitors right? Less competition?

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, survivedc said:

Machado is a jerk. Or was anyway, haven’t kept up on him as much. But he was drafted and developed by the O’s, not a free agent option. 

Correa would have to sink pretty low to be regarded more poorly than Delmon Young in my eyes and folks still cheered him.

I'm fine with "Jerk".  Just don't delve into criminal activity.

[joelala]

10 minutes ago, survivedc said:

I’m guessing you didn’t follow his interactions with the media or what other players were saying about him last year

I did somewhat. If I remember, he admitted to using the trash can and was pretty candid in general in that locker room interview that I’m guessing is what you’re referring to. Sure he was surly, but can you blame him?

[GuidoSarducci]

10 hours ago, glenn__davis said:

Good questions that have been debated on here quite a bit.  I'd say the following:

1.  Too many other variables to put into a true timeframe here.  Can of Corn and Sports Guy here kind of lead the charge that it shouldn't take 3-4 years of total MLB suckage to build a good system.  I tend to agree with them.  But you also have to take into account the talent doing the scouting and player selection, player development, etc.  I think those things are more important than tanking in MLB.  Not to mention your investment and return in international talent.  Good organizations find a way to have a good MLB team along with a good system.

2.  For some reason I've always seen the Cardinals as a parallel to Baltimore.  Not really sure why.  Maybe it's because we came from there.  Maybe because we're both birds.  Who knows.  Ideally I'm not a fan of the Tampa model.  Don't like the idea of continuously getting rid of good players.  If that's what it takes to win then I get it, and they've been successful with it, but I don't think that should be the case with Baltimore.  Be smart financially, but we shouldn't need to be misers.

3.  The economic landscape wouldn't be nearly so damaging if they'd just get rid of the stupid unbalanced schedule.  For Baltimore and TB to have to have a schedule so loaded against NYY, BOS and TOR is ridiculous.  Toronto is a sleeping giant financially.

 

I think Baltimore is more like Oakland than St. Louis.  They both have limited resources, both play in divisions with two big market teams with substantial resources making it tough to compete, both had glory years in the 70s/80s that they have been unable to come close to matching.  Both have an overlapping market with more southerly, richer NL team that has eclipsed them.  Even the cities are comparable - both being major port cities with an industrial feel, recent problems with race and policing.   And both lost their football teams, and then got them back (but Oakland lost theirs again)

Of course the difference is that As have been able to sustain at least regular season success, partially because those big market teams were not competently run, where as with the Orioles both big market teams are threats to make the playoffs year and year out.  Of course now with Houston being in the AL West, as well as the Angels possibly starting to become competently run that has upset the equation so it may be hard for the As to compete as frequently as they have in the past.

Edited April 15, 2021 by GuidoSarducci

[Frobby]

27 minutes ago, survivedc said:

Machado is a jerk. Or was anyway, haven’t kept up on him as much. But he was drafted and developed by the O’s, not a free agent option. 

Machado was only a jerk once he left the Orioles, just like all players who ever played for us.   

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Machado was only a jerk once he left the Orioles, just like all players who ever played for us.   

[GuidoSarducci]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'll see that and raise you a 

 

 

 

[Yardball85]

38 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Correa would have to sink pretty low to be regarded more poorly than Delmon Young in my eyes and folks still cheered him.

I'm fine with "Jerk".  Just don't delve into criminal activity.

Agreed.  Delmon Young is by far the biggest "jerk" this team has had in the last twenty years (post Belle, who I know was also a "jerk").  Correa may be a jerk but I'd take him in a second as the SS for the next 5-7 years. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, GuidoSarducci said:

I'll see that and raise you a 

 

 

 

He was an O twice...so I guess you win.

[GuidoSarducci]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He was an O twice...so I guess you win.

Well maybe not, I don't think Ponson has been arrested recently.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-former-oriole-albert-belle-reportedly-arrested-0326-story.html

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, GuidoSarducci said:

Well maybe not, I don't think Ponson has been arrested recently.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-former-oriole-albert-belle-reportedly-arrested-0326-story.html

I was in the while in uniform division.

[Oriole1940]

Depending on what the definition of Bad is, I see it this way.  Upper management is supposed to draft well, and trade well.  The dugout Manager and coaches job is to get as much out of the given talent as humanly possible, hopefully in a decent manner.  Leaving personalities out of the equation, is I think what must be done.   Although that is very hard to do.    None of us can walk on water or are perfect to the extent of never making a mistake.    Thinking back to baseball history,  some of the best players, HOF  players were the most troublesome and  hardest to deal with, whether you were friend or foe.  They were not all Stan Musial or Cal Ripken types.  So to try to answer the original question about how long being bad.  Depending on how good a job Upper Management did in acquiring the plyers, and how good a job the Field Manager/Coaches did in developing their talents as best way possible  determines how  quickly an organization is turned from a Loser to a Winner.  Luck is another part of the equation   So to a question like this, one can only guess as to what the answer is.  It is not written in the stars how many years it takes to go from Loser to  Winner.  Each organization is different in that way.   I will say that in the Orioles situation as it is now, if being competitive by 2022 or 2023,  and better than just competitive by 2024 is not accomplished, then I say the rebuild is a failure.  

[Orioles0615]

1 hour ago, Oriole1940 said:

Depending on what the definition of Bad is, I see it this way.  Upper management is supposed to draft well, and trade well.  The dugout Manager and coaches job is to get as much out of the given talent as humanly possible, hopefully in a decent manner.  Leaving personalities out of the equation, is I think what must be done.   Although that is very hard to do.    None of us can walk on water or are perfect to the extent of never making a mistake.    Thinking back to baseball history,  some of the best players, HOF  players were the most troublesome and  hardest to deal with, whether you were friend or foe.  They were not all Stan Musial or Cal Ripken types.  So to try to answer the original question about how long being bad.  Depending on how good a job Upper Management did in acquiring the plyers, and how good a job the Field Manager/Coaches did in developing their talents as best way possible  determines how  quickly an organization is turned from a Loser to a Winner.  Luck is another part of the equation   So to a question like this, one can only guess as to what the answer is.  It is not written in the stars how many years it takes to go from Loser to  Winner.  Each organization is different in that way.   I will say that in the Orioles situation as it is now, if being competitive by 2022 or 2023,  and better than just competitive by 2024 is not accomplished, then I say the rebuild is a failure.  

Agreed if we are not .500 or better by 2023 Elias needs to be fired