Where are the undervalued guys from other organizations?

[Tony-OH]

22 minutes ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:

Fry was a cast off from Seattle, gotten for only some International Money.

That was a Duquette move.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

12 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

That was a Duquette move.

Got it. I should have read the first part instead of the list.

[milbest77]

Let’s face it, these guys were brought in to slash payroll. There’s no way the franchise can be making any money. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, milbest77 said:

Let’s face it, these guys were brought in to slash payroll. There’s no way the franchise can be making any money. 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Revenue_sharing

Quote

In Major League Baseball, 48% of local revenues are subject to revenue sharing and are distributed equally among all 30 teams, with each team receiving 3.3% of the total sum generated. As a result, in 2018, each team received $118 million from this pot. Teams also receive a share of national revenues, which were estimated to be $91 million per team, also in 2018.

 

https://www.morssglobalfinance.com/major-league-baseball-finances-what-the-numbers-tell-us/

[ArtVanDelay]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

What do you mean they were undervalued by "us?"

Means wen into the offseason and learned that changeup. He also increased his velocity by going to a performance place, not because of something the organization did for him. I know he's tangibly given some credit to Holt for the changeup, but I don't think the Orioles under Elias suddenly developed Means.

As for Mullins, he was always a prospect. it wasn't until he finally decided on his own to give up switch hitting did he become an everyday guy. When the organization tried to makes some changes with him two years ago you saw how awful he was.

Elias felt so good about him he sent him all the way to AA in 2019.

Over his last 109 PAs, Mullins is slashing .242/.330/.400/.730. Not terrible, but let's not start calling him a success story of the regime.

League average OPS is .708 this year so that’s still solidly above average. 

[HowAboutThat]

There’s nothing wrong with taking gambles, gambles are great, most of them don’t work out, or they wouldn’t be gambles. Everybody gives Dan credit for getting Brad Brach, But he was just a gamble who turned out to be great for multiple years. The problem is that in addition to the no-cost gambles we are making, we are doing… Nothing.

Along with the gambles you’ve got to do some “sure things.” Or as “sure thing” as baseball gets, and we’re not doing that.

the Jury is still out on Greene, Jannis, Wells and Scheroler, as well as a few others who slip my mind, but I think they will be worthwhile pitchers.

Valdez was just luck, like Brach, and God be thanked for Luck.

We can’t judge Elias on how well he deals, because he hasn’t pushed for any teams meaningful prospects yet, and he hasn’t made any deals of any kind to get substantial,”right now” production.

maybe by October, we will have some answers.

[spiritof66]

10 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

What do you mean they were undervalued by "us?"

Means wen into the offseason and learned that changeup. He also increased his velocity by going to a performance place, not because of something the organization did for him. I know he's tangibly given some credit to Holt for the changeup, but I don't think the Orioles under Elias suddenly developed Means.

As for Mullins, he was always a prospect. it wasn't until he finally decided on his own to give up switch hitting did he become an everyday guy. When the organization tried to makes some changes with him two years ago you saw how awful he was.

Elias felt so good about him he sent him all the way to AA in 2019.

Over his last 109 PAs, Mullins is slashing .242/.330/.400/.730. Not terrible, but let's not start calling him a success story of the regime.

So you mean guys like, say, Mike Yastrzemski?

[sportsfan8703]

I’m not thrilled with Elias but I think we have to look at Alberto(.735 OPS) and Severino(.708 OPS) as successful waiver claims for the O’s. Elias also identified Austin Brice but lost him on waivers. Iglesias, Milone, and Galvis, have been good FA signs. 
 

We’re failing this year with prospects/players from another regime. We had to figure out what we had. Sink or swim. Everyone is sinking. 

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I’m not thrilled with Elias but I think we have to look at Alberto(.735 OPS) and Severino(.708 OPS) as successful waiver claims for the O’s. Elias also identified Austin Brice but lost him on waivers. Iglesias, Milone, and Galvis, have been good FA signs. 
 

Austin Brice, who has a 6.32 ERA in 31.1 innings since we claimed, then DFA’d him in Jan./Feb. 2020? He hardly seems like an example of a savvy move by Elias.   

[Sports Guy]

As much as I dislike him as a starter, Lopez could be an asset out of the pen.

He is someone we MAY be able to add to this list but right now, they have him in the wrong role.

[Camden_yardbird]

35 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

As much as I dislike him as a starter, Lopez could be an asset out of the pen.

He is someone we MAY be able to add to this list but right now, they have him in the wrong role.

The organization has to build depth to be able to cast players in the right role.  Getting a guy you think is undervalued and then trying to shoehorn him in somewhere else is just a different kind of failure.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

As much as I dislike him as a starter, Lopez could be an asset out of the pen.

He is someone we MAY be able to add to this list but right now, they have him in the wrong role.

The fact that the Orioles continue to use Lopez as a starter is mind-numbing. His numbers scream at you that he's a one time through the order guy, maybe you can get through 2PAs if the stuff is good, but he should not face batters a 3rd time through, yet Hyde does it pretty often.

I thought Lopez is exactly the kind of guy you find and then change his role and you get value, but the Orioles are intent on keeping him in this misfit role.

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The fact that the Orioles continue to use Lopez as a starter is mind-numbing. His numbers cream at you that he's a one time through the order guy, maybe you can get through 2PAs if the stuff is good, but he should not face batters a 3rd time through, yet Hyde does it pretty often.

I thought Lopez is exactly the kind of guy you find and then change his role and you get value, but the Orioles are intent on keeping him in this misfit role.

Yea and if they say, we are using him a full time opener..2-3 innings.  Ok, I can live with that if you want to go that route.

The issue I have with that is that I don’t think our pen is strong enough yet to have an opener.

And I get that the younger starters may not be Ml starters but, going back to your point about development, we aren’t going to develop them to be ML starters if we just yo yo them back and forth.  They won’t develop if they barely get into games because they only pitch a few innings a week, are on the taxi squad, etc...

All of that needs to end.

The Orioles can clearly see that Lopez struggles once he gets past the 4th inning but yet he does very well early on.  You have a BP hole, see if he can fill it.  You know, for a fact, that he isn’t a Ml starter.  Stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

I just don’t get why they are trying to force something that isn’t there.

[scbalt52]

They're so good that we are able to identify guys that make it look like we are trying but really we know they will mainly lead to losses which is actually what we want! 

[Ohfan67]

11 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

The fact that the Orioles continue to use Lopez as a starter is mind-numbing. His numbers cream at you that he's a one time through the order guy, maybe you can get through 2PAs if the stuff is good, but he should not face batters a 3rd time through, yet Hyde does it pretty often.

I thought Lopez is exactly the kind of guy you find and then change his role and you get value, but the Orioles are intent on keeping him in this misfit role.

I think you are viewing this too harshly. The Orioles don't really care about Lopez's future and they don't really care if he could give them a few more wins out of the bullpen right now. He's 28 year-old, dirt-cheap cannon fodder. They desperately need innings right now. Lopez would probably be significantly better out of the pen, like most starting pitchers, but the relatively slight increase in value means nothing to the Orioles. They just need a body to throw innings until someone "real" is ready to be brought up from the minors. If their current work with Lopez and the experience Lopez is gaining makes him a better bullpen piece next year and/or the year after, then double bonus. But I don't think they are misusing Lopez right now...they are prioritizing innings over maximizing individual value. I think there's a great chance they will change that approach as they start brining up more pitchers. But until then, I think Lopez is going to cover as many innings as they can squeeze out of him.