Don't waste the Adley, Grayson and DL years.

[wildcard]

I think most of us expect these three will be promoted to AAA in the 2nd half.   And they will be in the Majors in 2022.   They will only be under team control for 6 years unless they are extended.  With the team's history on long term contracts and  Elias' leaning toward being transactional like Tampa, extensions may not be the approach the Orioles take.   Under that approach the O's may trade these players after 4 and half to 5 years.

The new CBA terms  are unknown but It does not seem that team control of players will get longer.  One of the changes that may be made is to  stop the ability to keep control of a player prior to free agency for 7 years.

Dan Duquette was hired in late 2011.  He decided that the players that Andy MacPhail had left him were good enough to build around so that if he just added a few players he could turn a 69 win team into a contender.   And he did just that.  He won 93 in 2012 and went to the playoffs.  

The addition of these three players will be a big jump forward for the team.  And there will be many pitchers competing for the last 2 spots in the rotation and the pen including Bradish, Baumann,  Kremer, Zimmermann, Lowther, Akin,  T Wells, Smith, Peralta, Blaine Knight, A Wells, Fry, Scott, H Harvey, Tate, Vespi, Sulser,  and Bishop.   The areas  that needs bolstering is 2B, SS and 3B.    There are young players to compete for those spots in Grenier, Leyba, Vavra, Ortiz and Jones but no established infielders.    There will be quality free agents on the market.

There is the making of the winning and maybe contending team next season if the right moves are made this off season and if players like Mancini,  Means, Santander Sulser and Fry are not traded at the 2021 deadline.   

I hope the O's do not waste the talents of Adley, Grayson and DL in 2022.  The O's control of them is already a short window.  The time to put a contending Orioles team on the field is 2022 with the development we are seeing in the minors.

[Sports Guy]

And you help them in 2022 but having them up here in 2021, especially Adley.  

[sevastras]

17 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

And you help them in 2022 but having them up here in 2021, especially Adley.  

I dont think Adley needs a cup of coffee. I think he is settling in after mono and a weird year last year and wont have much of a learning curve as most prospects when he is called up.  I think you give him a half year at AAA and then have him up when ever the date is that he gains an additional year of control(if it is still a thing) in 2022.  I want to see him now and think he can hold his own just fine now, but also want an additional year.

[Camden_yardbird]

Ask the owners.  Not wasting the talent we have coming will be about where the owners are willing to stretch payroll to and fill in gaps with quality major league players.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, sevastras said:

I dont think Adley needs a cup of coffee. I think he is settling in after mono and a weird year last year and wont have much of a learning curve as most prospects when he is called up.  I think you give him a half year at AAA and then have him up when ever the date is that he gains an additional year of control(if it is still a thing) in 2022.  I want to see him now and think he can hold his own just fine now, but also want an additional year.

I’m not concerned with getting him the additional year.  He will be 30 and quite frankly, if you want him that long, you sign him.  
 

He may not need a lot of adjustment but I also don’t expect him to immediately be up and be elite.  It will take some time.  I would rather see that time start now.  Waiting until April 20 of 2022 doesn’t make much sense to me.

[vab]

26 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I think most of us expect these three will be promoted to AAA in the 2nd half.   And they will be in the Majors in 2022.   They will only be under team control for 6 years unless they are extended.  With the team's history on long term contracts and  Elias' leaning toward being transactional like Tampa, extensions may not be the approach the Orioles take.   Under that approach the O's may trade these players after 4 and half to 5 years.

The new CBA terms  are unknown but It does not seem that team control of players will get longer.  One of the changes that may be made is to  stop the ability to keep control of a player prior to free agency for 7 years.

Dan Duquette was hired in late 2011.  He decided that the players that Andy MacPhail had left him were good enough to build around so that if he just added a few players he could turn a 69 win team into a contender.   And he did just that.  He won 93 in 2012 and went to the playoffs.  

The addition of these three players will be a big jump forward for the team.  And there will be many pitchers competing for the last 2 spots in the rotation and the pen including Bradish, Baumann,  Kremer, Zimmermann, Lowther, Akin,  T Wells, Smith, Peralta, Blaine Knight, A Wells, Fry, Scott, H Harvey, Tate, Vespi, Sulser,  and Bishop.   The areas  that needs bolstering is 2B, SS and 3B.    There are young players to compete for those spots in Grenier, Leyba, Vavra, Ortiz and Jones but no established infielders.    There will be quality free agents on the market.

There is the making of the winning and maybe contending team next season if the right moves are made this off season and if players like Mancini,  Means, Santander Sulser and Fry are not traded at the 2021 deadline.   

I hope the O's do not waste the talents of Adley, Grayson and DL in 2022.  The O's control of them is already a short window.  The time to put a contending Orioles team on the field is 2022 with the development we are seeing in the minors.

What you're suggesting is a pretty big departure from the plan Elias appearing to be following. I think, if they're this far into it, they need to stick with the current plan and see it through. I know everybody's tired of losing but going halfway between rebuilding and trying to contend next year is not going to result in the kind of quality organization we want to see the Orioles become again. At least not for the long run. 

[jabba72]

I agree having those 3 on the same team is our best shot at winning. Does that mean have them all on the roster on opening day next year?  If so, they'll need to get some AAA time in this year. Adley could possibly get promoted on July 1st. The other two could need a few more starts in Bowie. 

[fitzi22]

If the player is ready you play him.  The Astros did it with Altuve.  The Braves did it with Freeman.  There is no sense in alienating a player and a fan base by holding a player back to possibly keep them for their 30 year old season by sacrificing their 24 year old season.  Keep building and move them up when ready.

[Ruzious]

8 minutes ago, fitzi22 said:

If the player is ready you play him.  The Astros did it with Altuve.  The Braves did it with Freeman.  There is no sense in alienating a player and a fan base by holding a player back to possibly keep them for their 30 year old season by sacrificing their 24 year old season.  Keep building and move them up when ready.

There's no doubt in my mind that if the O's had Acuna, he'd have played 2 more years in the minors, and in that time - frustration might have eaten away at him and damaged his career.  

[Ruzious]

46 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

And you help them in 2022 but having them up here in 2021, especially Adley.  

Right, they're probably going to play like rookies in 2022 because they will be rookies in 2022.  

[Explosivo]

You don’t start the clock early on these guys. You maximize the window of opportunity. In situations like Machado where you already have a complete team but need an additional boost, that’s when you bring up a player early. I think we may see that with a guy like Hernandez, Henderson, or Westberg but not with your core contingent in Adley, Grayson, Hall, and Baumann. It pays dividends now to have them build report. Trust Elias. He knows what he is doing.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Explosivo

[Frobby]

Realistically, I do not think the team can contend in 2022.   Finishing around .500 is possible.   Under those circumstances, I would not want to hold on to Mancini just to have him for one more season.  I’d rather trade him for players who can help us later.   The other players wildcard mentions are under control for a longer period of time so I don’t think we need to trade any of them unless we are really bowled over with an offer.   

I really like Mancini but it’s just not worth it to hold onto him if all we are getting is one season after this one.   
 

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

I think most of us expect these three will be promoted to AAA in the 2nd half.   And they will be in the Majors in 2022.   They will only be under team control for 6 years unless they are extended.  With the team's history on long term contracts and  Elias' leaning toward being transactional like Tampa, extensions may not be the approach the Orioles take.   Under that approach the O's may trade these players after 4 and half to 5 years.

The new CBA terms  are unknown but It does not seem that team control of players will get longer.  One of the changes that may be made is to  stop the ability to keep control of a player prior to free agency for 7 years.

Dan Duquette was hired in late 2011.  He decided that the players that Andy MacPhail had left him were good enough to build around so that if he just added a few players he could turn a 69 win team into a contender.   And he did just that.  He won 93 in 2012 and went to the playoffs.  

The addition of these three players will be a big jump forward for the team.  And there will be many pitchers competing for the last 2 spots in the rotation and the pen including Bradish, Baumann,  Kremer, Zimmermann, Lowther, Akin,  T Wells, Smith, Peralta, Blaine Knight, A Wells, Fry, Scott, H Harvey, Tate, Vespi, Sulser,  and Bishop.   The areas  that needs bolstering is 2B, SS and 3B.    There are young players to compete for those spots in Grenier, Leyba, Vavra, Ortiz and Jones but no established infielders.    There will be quality free agents on the market.

There is the making of the winning and maybe contending team next season if the right moves are made this off season and if players like Mancini,  Means, Santander Sulser and Fry are not traded at the 2021 deadline.   

I hope the O's do not waste the talents of Adley, Grayson and DL in 2022.  The O's control of them is already a short window.  The time to put a contending Orioles team on the field is 2022 with the development we are seeing in the minors.

So you are in favor of using unethical tactics to suppress worker wages.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Explosivo said:

You don’t start the clock early on these guys. You maximize the window of opportunity. In situations like Machado where you already have a complete team but need an additional boost, that’s when you bring up a player early. I think we may see that with a guy like Hernandez, Henderson, or Westberg but not with your core contingent in Adley, Grayson, Hall, and Baumann. It pays dividends now to have them build report. Trust Elias. He knows what he is doing.

+1, the easiest way to waste a year is to give up a year of team control for no particular reason. 

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, vab said:

What you're suggesting is a pretty big departure from the plan Elias appearing to be following. I think, if they're this far into it, they need to stick with the current plan and see it through. I know everybody's tired of losing but going halfway between rebuilding and trying to contend next year is not going to result in the kind of quality organization we want to see the Orioles become again. At least not for the long run. 

I don't see that anything I talked about is a departure from Elias plan.   Certainly Grayson, Adley and DL being in the majors next year is not a departure.   Signing FAs is not either because Elias signed Galvis and Franco for the current year.  All I am saying is sign some better talent for one year next year.