I’ve pretty much stopped watching

[Tony-OH]

12 minutes ago, orioles22 said:

Nothing the Orioles could do, in my opinion, would be worse than rushing prospects to the majors because fans are bored with watching "retreads." I'd rather watch the Orioles lose now than take a 1 percent chance on messing up the development of the guys who at least give fans hope of a better future.

I know some think AAA is not necessary, but it's been there for many years, so I'd rather they all make a stop there, at least the ones below Machado level, and even Adley when you consider the service time issue.

Not everyone understands how players develop in the minor leagues and how at each level they find a new set of challenges to overcome. Lowether and Wells haven't even had consistent success in AAA. If they do, I have no problem with them getting chances at the major league level this year, but for now, they need to prove they can get AAA hitters out.

Kremer has never proved he could get AAA hitters out consistently and now we have what we have with him. Akin has the most AAA experience but he's the same guy he was in the minors who always seems to give up that big inning.

Akin probably is better suited to the pen and maybe Kremer too in the long run, but I'd like to see Kremer back to AAA for 10-15 starts. Heck, bring up Spenser Watkins and give him some starts. I don't think he's an answer to anything but he can eats some inning and probably pitch to a 5 ERA, maybe. 

There really isn't much in the cupboard. It exactly why Harvey is still starting. He's here to just eat as many innings as possible.

 

[Tony-OH]

41 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You don’t need to pitch in AAA.  It’s not a pre-requisite to being a ML starter and Akin did have a full season in AAA.

What the camp accomplished last year was instruction, just like the camp in April this year (where they faced Nationals players).  It wasn’t a lot but it wasn’t Nothing either.  They learned, they got coached, threw the ball, etc…it’s not like they were sitting at home, twiddling their thumbs and then boom, you throw them out to the wolves.

And then they come back and have a full ST.  I expected to see some drop off later in the year, much because of the things you are discussing.  

I think the difference in the ball is the main reason why these guys should have to have some successful time in AAA before coming to the majors. Kremer has never had sustained success above AA and not coincidentally, that's with the major league balls. 

i can tell you that the movement and sharpness of his curveball is different to what I saw in AA when I thought very highly of him. You can say the same thing about Lowther. His stuff doesn't look as crisp with the major league ball.

[eddie83]

28 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Patience is a tough thing to come up when your team is losing.  Elias seems to have it.  Many fans don't.   Elias seem to want to see a players dominate for 100 AB before promotion.  That is about a month if he plays every day.    Actually by normal standards that is pretty aggressive.

I have patience with what he is doing. Losing blowouts and going 2 weeks winning one game is hard to watch. 

[Sports Guy]

10 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I think the difference in the ball is the main reason why these guys should have to have some successful time in AAA before coming to the majors. Kremer has never had sustained success above AA and not coincidentally, that's with the major league balls. 

i can tell you that the movement and sharpness of his curveball is different to what I saw in AA when I thought very highly of him. You can say the same thing about Lowther. His stuff doesn't look as crisp with the major league ball.

Sure but Kremer has been using that ball for about a year now.  He should have a feel for it at this point.  
 

This is the type of thing where last year was still helpful even if it wasn’t ideal.

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Sure but Kremer has been using that ball for about a year now.  He should have a feel for it at this point.  
 

This is the type of thing where last year was still helpful even if it wasn’t ideal.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he's Garrett Olson? Olson never could spin his breaking ball effectively enough with the major league ball.

With only 6 unsuccessful starts in AAA, Kremer has not shown he was ready for the majors. i understood why he was given the chance, but its time for him to spend 10-15 starts in AAA.

[orioles22]

Not sure what the Orioles gained by rushing Kremer through AAA. Maybe he'd still be bad with two full seasons at Norfolk, but there's no point in rushing the process. I'd rather the Orioles spent some more money for veteran pitchers as placeholders for a year or two.

[Jammer7]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he's Garrett Olson? Olson never could spin his breaking ball effectively enough with the major league ball.

With only 6 unsuccessful starts in AAA, Kremer has not shown he was ready for the majors. i understood why he was given the chance, but its time for him to spend 10-15 starts in AAA.

You've made some great points on Kremer, and player development, in general, in this thread. The way Kremer struggled last night with command, it was obvious that something was off. He is either injured, or perhaps he had been using something to get a better grip that he cannot use anymore. My biggest concern is how he just wilted out there. I have to question his competitiveness after seeing him last night. He seemingly could not wait to get out of there. My 10 year old noticed and called him out.

[DrungoHazewood]

3 hours ago, Jammer7 said:

I knew I would get you out on that point. As always, I respect your thoughts. I miss the game the way it was, sure, and I lamented that. I know change must happen. The rapid nature of it is difficult and leads to many having a distaste for the undulating nature of the game they barely recognize from the game they played 20-30 years ago. The PED’s and nerd ball strategies (I mean that in the nicest way) have lead to the three outcomes that do bore the heck out of me as well. 

I enjoy a great pitching match up, a well played 2-1 game. I am a bit of a romantic that way. I sometimes enjoy a slug fest too, but not every night. I love extra base hits in the gap, watching a guy steal and make great defensive plays. I miss watching a guy pitch seven innings every fifth night out, and occasionally going nine. I miss seeing a guy play his entire career with one organization None of that is a part of the game anymore. So be it. I do miss it.

Baseball is in a tough spot.  They have a fanbase (or at least a core of the fanbase) that wants baseball like it was when they were 12 in 1960 or 1980 or whatever.  But those same people loathe the idea of proactive changes to move in that direction.

Fans: Everything has gone south.  We want more action, we want more contact, we want pitchers who throw more than a few innings.

MLB: What if we move the mound back, check pitchers for illegal stuff they use to throw super pitches, that should result in more action.

Fans: Stop messing with the game!!!

[osfan83]

1 hour ago, orioles22 said:

Nothing the Orioles could do, in my opinion, would be worse than rushing prospects to the majors because fans are bored with watching "retreads." I'd rather watch the Orioles lose now than take a 1 percent chance on messing up the development of the guys who at least give fans hope of a better future.

I know some think AAA is not necessary, but it's been there for many years, so I'd rather they all make a stop there, at least the ones below Machado level, and even Adley when you consider the service time issue.

They should allow the MLB club to take a pass on seasons where they are not trying to win. Maybe just field a team when you think you are ready to compete. 

[DrungoHazewood]

3 hours ago, eddie83 said:

They need the product to be as entertaining as possible knowing a 162 game sport will never be like football. It can’t be. I’m curious how they set up the next CBA in regards to the playoffs. Hope they don’t water down the meaning of the regular season.

Baseball's biggest problem is teams like the Orioles cannot regularly compete with teams that have 3-4 times the revenues.  Sure, the Rays are a thing.  But they are ruthless and cutthroat and super-efficient.  Everyone can't do that all the time.

The reality is that there's one trophy that matters, 29 teams go home disappointed, and on June 25th there are 9 or 10 teams that have been essentially eliminated.  They'll spend the next 90 games playing out the string.  By the All Star break there will be several more.  And there are 5-6 teams who were more-or-less eliminated on opening day.

The challenge in baseball is how to keep a modern fan with 1000 entertainment options engaged through a six-month, 162 game schedule when there's one trophy and some teams have $650M in revenues, some $200M.  The Yanks and Dodgers have player payrolls bigger than some teams total revenues, way bigger if you don't include revenue sharing.  Other sports have secondary competitions.  College sports have league titles and various tournaments and then the national championships.  Soccer has cups and relegation battles and Champions Leagues and international competitions.  Baseball has wait 'til 2024.

[orioles22]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Baseball's biggest problem is teams like the Orioles cannot regularly compete with teams that have 3-4 times the revenues.  Sure, the Rays are a thing.  But they are ruthless and cutthroat and super-efficient.  Everyone can't do that all the time.

The reality is that there's one trophy that matters, 29 teams go home disappointed, and on June 25th there are 9 or 10 teams that have been essentially eliminated.  They'll spend the next 90 games playing out the string.  By the All Star break there will be several more.  And there are 5-6 teams who were more-or-less eliminated on opening day.

The challenge in baseball is how to keep a modern fan with 1000 entertainment options engaged through a six-month, 162 game schedule when there's one trophy and some teams have $650M in revenues, some $200M.  The Yanks and Dodgers have player payrolls bigger than some teams total revenues, way bigger if you don't include revenue sharing.  Other sports have secondary competitions.  College sports have league titles and various tournaments and then the national championships.  Soccer has cups and relegation battles and Champions Leagues and international competitions.  Baseball has wait 'til 2024.

Yes, seems impossible unless there is a salary cap like the NFL.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, osfan83 said:

They should allow the MLB club to take a pass on seasons where they are not trying to win. Maybe just field a team when you think you are ready to compete. 

Or institute a rule that if you are more than X games below .500 over a five year span your team is contracted and replaced by an expansion team.  No, that's obviously never going to happen.  Owners love the fact that no matter how badly they do there's essentially a 0% risk to their investment.

In leagues with promotion/relegation nobody ever tears it down and rebuilds unless the team is just a total on-field and financial dumpster fire.  Just the threat of losing most of your media revenue scares the ever living bejezzus out of an owner.

[LocoChris]

People here are being rash. I get people are frustrated with the team being a complete joke, but rushing prospects to get a watchable product will probably just make us unwatchable for the next decade. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Baseball's biggest problem is teams like the Orioles cannot regularly compete with teams that have 3-4 times the revenues.  Sure, the Rays are a thing.  But they are ruthless and cutthroat and super-efficient.  Everyone can't do that all the time.

The reality is that there's one trophy that matters, 29 teams go home disappointed, and on June 25th there are 9 or 10 teams that have been essentially eliminated.  They'll spend the next 90 games playing out the string.  By the All Star break there will be several more.  And there are 5-6 teams who were more-or-less eliminated on opening day.

The challenge in baseball is how to keep a modern fan with 1000 entertainment options engaged through a six-month, 162 game schedule when there's one trophy and some teams have $650M in revenues, some $200M.  The Yanks and Dodgers have player payrolls bigger than some teams total revenues, way bigger if you don't include revenue sharing.  Other sports have secondary competitions.  College sports have league titles and various tournaments and then the national championships.  Soccer has cups and relegation battles and Champions Leagues and international competitions.  Baseball has wait 'til 2024.

Or MLB has to emulate the NFL and implement a salary cap and forced revenue sharing to give the smaller markets a chance to compete. Problem is I can't see the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, etc. agreeing to give up their golden goose. 

[osfan83]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

Or institute a rule that if you are more than X games below .500 over a five year span your team is contracted and replaced by an expansion team.  No, that's obviously never going to happen.  Owners love the fact that no matter how badly they do there's essentially a 0% risk to their investment.

In leagues with promotion/relegation nobody ever tears it down and rebuilds unless the team is just a total on-field and financial dumpster fire.  Just the threat of losing most of your media revenue scares the ever living bejezzus out of an owner.

Yep, that's why I've become a Premiere League fan. Would be great if the O's played in 3 or 4 tournaments a year against teams with similar payrolls. That would keep me interested.