Rutschman/Mussina

[DrungoHazewood]

On 8/6/2021 at 2:22 PM, wildcard said:

I am with Tony on this.  Every Oriole that has had his number retired was part of a World Series team as an Oriole.   To retire Mussina's number lowers that bar.  I see no reason for it.

Mussina belongs in the O's HOF.  He deserves respect for being in the MLB HOF.   But he never led the O's to the WS.   Keep his number active.

 

So the Cubs should retire Jake Arrieta's number, but not Banks, Williams and Santo?  The Red Sox should un-retire Ted Williams' and Carl Yastrzemski's numbers, but retire David Ortiz' about four times over?  The Padres and Rangers should have zero retired numbers, correct?  Give Tony Gwynn's number to the next guy they call up to make a spot start because he never led them to a title.

Oh, and don't take any of this to mean I want Mussina's number retired.  I don't take as hard a line as Tony, but half a career in Baltimore followed by going to NYC doesn't pass my completely subjective threshold.  I just don't think a WS ring is a non-negotiable line you have to pass.

[NCRaven]

Mussina's is the toughest case that I can think of for retiring a past Oriole's number.  Frank Robinson was here less time, but had a bigger impact on the team.  He helped turn a good team into a great team.  Heck, Mike Cuellar may have had a bigger impact on the team than the other Mike #35.  Mussina was never the best pitcher in the league, but he was pretty much always one of the best.  It seemed to me that he was willing to settle for being another Yankee pitcher instead of the "Man" on an Oriole's staff.  I wouldn't get my nose bent out of joint if they did honor him that way.  But, I'm not really for it either.

[spiritof66]

On 8/6/2021 at 8:24 PM, Can_of_corn said:

Except Lew Ford.

As a player and then player-coach with the Long Island Ducks, Lew Ford has been a part of three Atlantic League pennant winners.        

[NCRaven]

Just now, spiritof66 said:

As a player and then player-coach with the Long Island Ducks, Lew Ford has been a part of three Atlantic League pennant winners.        

Well, then let the Ducks retire his number!

[spiritof66]

1 minute ago, NCRaven said:

Well, then let the Ducks retire his number!

I'll try to keep you posted.

[NCRaven]

2 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:

I'll try to keep you posted.

I can't wait. 

 

[Gentile4]

What heck's wrong w/Gary Kendall in Norfolk? Apparently, he wouldn't give up his #35 to the new kid who's now forced to wear #36. Hopefully, it won't bum AR out too much.

[Catch 8]

On 8/6/2021 at 11:30 AM, Sports Guy said:

Good argument that he was the best pitcher in Os history.  (The argument is based around peak/numbers as an Oriole..obvious Palmer is more accomplished and probably still gets the nod but I think it’s closer than Os fans want to admit)
 

That said, I don’t think he should have his number retired because he did leave.  It was PA’s fault but he still left. 
 

I wouldn’t hate if they retired his number but I don’t feel it needs to happen either.

First post in a few years--Mussina 97 ALDS was the definition of an ace.  Locate in, out, and spike the knuckle-curve.  He had at least three very good to exceptional pitches.  I remember him throwing the filthiest 3-2 change to escape bases-loaded against Texas (~95?).  It was terrible when he departed for NYY.

I only saw Palmer in the 93 Old Timers' game, and he wasn't that good

[Frobby]

Just now, Catch 8 said:

First post in a few years--Mussina 97 ALDS was the definition of an ace.  Locate in, out, and spike the knuckle-curve.  He had at least three very good to exceptional pitches.  I remember him throwing the filthiest 3-2 change to escape bases-loaded against Texas (~95?).  It was terrible when he departed for NYY.

I only saw Palmer in the 93 Old Timers' game, and he wasn't that good

Saw them both many times.  They were very close to equal IMO.

[Ohfan67]

Man. The 2021 season stinks so bad that we are arguing about Mussina again. 

[Orioles4Life21]

On 8/6/2021 at 11:39 AM, Frobby said:

I don’t feel the way Tony does about Mussina, but I also would not retire his number.  He’s in the Orioles Hall of Fame, and that’s enough.  
 

Twelve people have worn that number over the years since Mussina left: 

Adam Plutko (2021)

Dwight Smith Jr. (2019-2020)

Brad Brach (2014-2018)

Danny Valencia (2013)

Bill Hall (2012)

Omar Quintanilla (2012)

Brad Bergesen (2009-2011)

Greg Aquino (2008)

Daniel Cabrera (2004-2007)

Rick Helling (2003)

Matt Riley (2003)

Josh Towers (2001-2002)

Before Mussina, Mike Cuellar and Wally Bunker (among others) also wore no. 35.

Fun fact:

Josh Towers has the best single season BB/9 mark in Orioles history.

He walked 16 guys in 140.1 innings in his 2001 rookie season for a BB/9 mark of 1.0.

[Orioles4Life21]

6 minutes ago, Orioles4Life21 said:

Fun fact:

Josh Towers has the best single season BB/9 mark in Orioles history.

He walked 16 guys in 140.1 innings in his 2001 rookie season for a BB/9 mark of 1.0.

Interestingly enough I just looked at the place where I first found this out and Towers’ season isn’t even listed anymore. Was 140 innings not enough to qualify? https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BAL/leaders_pitch_season.shtml

[LA2]

On 8/6/2021 at 4:09 PM, rudyrooster said:

List of Orioles whom have had their jersey numbers retired is a short one, as well it should be.

#4  Earl Weaver.     

#5  Brooks Robinson

#8  Cal Ripken Jr.     

#20  Frank Robinson 

#22  Jim Palmer

#33   Eddie Murray 

Interesting that all SIX of these Orioles earned World Series rings and all SIX have statues at the ballpark.           

ftfy

[LA2]

On 8/6/2021 at 2:48 PM, spiritof66 said:

I don't see why winning a World Series, or being part of a team that came close, should be a requirement. The retirement of a number should be, IMO, a way to recognize guys with extraordinary (usually including lengthy) careers as Orioles players who meant a lot to the team, to its fans and to Baltimore. The guys whose numbers have been retired all meet those criteria. So do Boog Powell and Adam Jones, to take what are for me easy cases, among others.

 

I second that motion. But between the two, if forced to make a decision, it would be Boog.