Rutschman to Norfolk

[Beysbol]

15 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Some would argue about the diff between MP and Cop.

I used to be an MP in the Marines and everyone on base has to do the limit or they'll get pulled over. I hated doing it because it's just dumb, but that's what our Gunnery Sergeant wanted and also the base commander (Colonel). 

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

But that's influenced, maybe heavily influenced, by service time.  I'd bet setting a fixed age for free agency would reduce that median debut age by a year or two.

Hence why I said, “even if you assume it would shorten by a year if you changed the FA rules.”

I did a cursory study of how the median debut time had changed over the last 7 decades a couple of months ago.   It definitely got longer, but was never below 23.5 in the last 70 years.   

 

[SteveA]

27 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I would have rather seen him get 250-300 ML last bats than worry about that.  Im not overly concerned that a work stoppage occurs or lasts that long for it to really matter.

 

And again, I think this idea is something very few people have in their minds.  This has nothing to do with (most) people not wanting him up.

Ahh, but that's not what you said.   You said there is absolutely no reason besides service time to keep him down right now.   And I gave a legitimate reason.    <---Is what I would say if I was the kind of person who liked to nitpick the semantics of every post on the message board that disagrees with me to prove that I am right.   But that's not my style.   I'll make my point and as long as I think it is understood I won't worry about getting into a never ending pissing contest with people who disagree with me.  

[NCRaven]

If the 2012 team had the record we have now, Manny Machado would have stayed at AA.  It's all situational and decisions have to be made in a larger context that looks at the whole picture.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, NCRaven said:

If the 2012 team had the record we have now, Manny Machado would have stayed at AA.  It's all situational and decisions have to be made in a larger context that looks at the who picture.

2012 was super desperate for anybody breathing that could play defense at that position, and if they could, that was gravy.

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, NCRaven said:

If the 2012 team had the record we have now, Manny Machado would have stayed at AA.  It's all situational and decisions have to be made in a larger context that looks at the whole picture.

If Elias was the GM in 2012 I think Machado would have stayed in AA.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Redskins Rick said:

2012 was super desperate for anybody breathing that could play defense at that position, and if they could, that was gravy.

 

Kinda like Catcher is on the 2021 team? 

[Redskins Rick]

6 minutes ago, Beysbol said:

I used to be an MP in the Marines and everyone on base has to do the limit or they'll get pulled over. I hated doing it because it's just dumb, but that's what our Gunnery Sergeant wanted and also the base commander (Colonel). 

some local sheriffs, and even certain districts within the county police, where they pull everybody for speeding and giving them probable cause to check them for additional issues.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

That’s too early.   The median age for a player debut is 24.   Even assuming it would shorten by a year if you changed the FA rules, you’d be having the average player reaching free agency after 4-5 years of service.   Owners aren’t going to agree to that drastic a change.   

That average debut time would go way down if they had control of a player until the age of 27 or 28. Besides, good organizations would buy out those prime years for the best talent. Plus, I think it would add more excitement to the game if some really good going into their prime players were available each year.

Right now, the system is broke. In theory you could own the rights to an 18 year old kid until he is 31 years old before he would ever be eligible for free agency (four year before needing to go on the 40-man, 3 option yeas, and then six years of major league time). 

Why should it matter if they are in the majors or minors leagues when it comes to becoming a free agent? Make it age specific for free agency and maybe guys will get promoted quicker and play a role in the majors quicker and the game will improve. 

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Kinda like Catcher is on the 2021 team? 

YUP.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, NCRaven said:

Sports Guy, I think sucking in 2021 is only one small piece of the argument, at least for me.  In fact, I don't believe it's even mentioned in my posts, above.  I've outlined several others reasons for having AR spend 2021 in the minors.  Feel free to ignore them as you wish.  I can only note my own thoughts, not those of unspecified "most people."

The only reason sucking this year is a factor is if the team really was contending, then it would make some sense to bring up Rutschman since he's better than what the team currently has. Since that's not a factor, it goes into the equation but this is mostly 40-man and time clock manipulation that makes sense under the current CBA.

[NCRaven]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

 

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If Elias was the GM in 2012 I think Machado would have stayed in AA.

Just gonna disagree.  This isn't 2012 and I think that Elias is smart enough to know that.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, NCRaven said:

 

Just gonna disagree.  This isn't 2012 and I think that Elias is smart enough to know that.

OK.  I don't see Elias taking a risk like that.  He appears to be very risk adverse. 

[NCRaven]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

OK.  I don't see Elias taking a risk like that.  He appears to be very risk adverse. 

I think your right, but when we have a horrible record that makes for little reward.  In 2012, the risk-reward valuation was vastly different than it is in 2021.  And, I think that for now, Elias recognizes that.  When the record is better, and Lord I hope it gets better, the equation will change and I would expect Elias behavior to change.  We'll see.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

That average debut time would go way down if they had control of a player until the age of 27 or 28. 

Well, as I just wrote in response to a similar point from Drungo, the median age has never been below 23.5 in the last 70 years, even when there was no draft and you could keep players under control forever.   Obviously, there was no reason to artificially delay a player’s debut then.   

But anyway I am talking about what kind of concessions the owners realistically might make.  They aren’t going to agree to a system where they lose an average 2+ years of control.   It’s just too big a concession to realistically expect them to make.  And I don’t believe that teams typically delay players’ debuts by more than a year in order to manipulate service time.  Most players aren’t manipulated at all, and the ones that are, it costs them one season at most.   So owners aren’t going to give up (on average) 2 years of control over every player who reaches the majors to solve that problem.