Olney on O’s losing

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

This is where your and other posts lose me.  

The basic attitude around here is that we will bring up our prospects, we will get a lot better and then you spend.   There are a lot of assumptions being made.  As you pointed out, this year has been a failure because of the health and development of those young players we were counting on.  I agree and have written about that many times.

Yet, the plan is to continue to wait on the health and development of young players.  I don't get that logic.  Don't get me wrong, we are only going to go as far as the current players in the system allow us but you don't need to sit around and wait to make real FA or trade acquisitions.

Bring in these guys now and let the young players learn from them.  A guy like Kris Bryant is a good example of a proven vet who knows how to win.  He also represents a guy who plays a position of need.  We will see what direction his contract goes in but I think they should be aggressive for him.

David Price is another guy who fits that profile.  

There is nothing wrong with acquiring guys a year too early.  

Kris Bryant is going to get a monster contract. I would love it, but even if Elias was given the green light to be aggressive for him, there's no way he'd come here over other teams who need a 3B. If the O's were close to contending, maybe. I don't disagree that we should bring in guys "early", I just don't think those guys will be of the caliber of a Kris Bryant. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, SteveA said:

I agree, and would welcome Bryant or Price.

I think before the 2021 season would have been two years too early, so unless you are talking about a 4 year contract with someone, all you were going to get was a Franco-type patch.

Now before 2022, I think you start looking at 2 or 3 year contracts for guys who can be part of a contender.

Maybe.  It depends on what you do.  Is Adley up, as I wanted?  What impact do the better players have?  If you bring on 2 guys for the rotation, as I wanted, how much better is the rotation and, in turn, the pen?  We maybe don't win more than 70-75 games in 2021 but that doesn't mean the team can't contend for a WC In 2022.

Its easy to look at things right now and play the game.  But you can play a season 1000 times and you will get a lot of different outcomes.  If you bring on better talent, maybe that changes a lot of things.

Also, no one is saying the players you could have added prior to 2021 had to be short term options.  One thing I wanted the team to do was use their buying power (they have plenty of payroll they could spend) and take back a bad contract or 2 to add good young talent.  

There are a lot of ways to accomplish things while getting better in the short and long term.  The Orioles seemingly didn't even try and I just don't get how anyone could be happy about that.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

Kris Bryant is going to get a monster contract. I would love it, but even if Elias was given the green light to be aggressive for him, there's no way he'd come here over other teams who need a 3B. If the O's were close to contending, maybe. I don't disagree that we should bring in guys "early", I just don't think those guys will be of the caliber of a Kris Bryant. 

Sure...The question is for how long.  He is going to be 30 to start the year.  How many years is he getting?  The money is meaningless to me.  Its the years that matter.  A 6/200 deal would be fine with me.  With the cheap contracts we have in the coming years, it wouldn't be a big deal to pay him that kind of money.

[vab]

The problem here is we really can't see what they're doing with the money they're saving on payroll. A lot of people seem to think they're just sitting on it and if that's true, yes we should be upset. I hope and think they're using that money for player-development. The bottom line is we're going to have to see some real progress in the next couple of years, If not, obviously, changes will have to be made. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, vab said:

The problem here is we really can't see what they're doing with the money they're saving on payroll. A lot of people seem to think they're just sitting on it and if that's true, yes we should be upset. I hope and think they're using that money for player-development. The bottom line is we're going to have to see some real progress in the next couple of years, If not, obviously, changes will have to be made. 

How much can you spend? 

What's the price tag of the new Dominican facility? 

[interloper]

17 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Sure...The question is for how long.  He is going to be 30 to start the year.  How many years is he getting?  The money is meaningless to me.  Its the years that matter.  A 6/200 deal would be fine with me.  With the cheap contracts we have in the coming years, it wouldn't be a big deal to pay him that kind of money.

For you and me, sure. There's absolutely no way the O's hand out more money than they paid Chris Davis right after they get out of that contract. It's just not going to happen, whether or not it should. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, interloper said:

For you and me, sure. There's absolutely no way the O's hand out more money than they paid Chris Davis right after they get out of that contract. It's just not going to happen, whether or not it should. 

Thankfully Elias has total control and it will be his decision how to spend his budget.

[interloper]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Thankfully Elias has total control and it will be his decision how to spend his budget.

I don't think anyone has ever said he has total control over the budget. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

I don't think anyone has ever said he has total control over the budget. 

If he's got total control that would have to include how he spends his budget.

If it doesn't it isn't total control.

 

I'm not saying he decides what his budget is, that would be nonsense.

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If he's got total control that would have to include how he spends his budget.

If it doesn't it isn't total control.

 

I'm not saying he decides what his budget is, that would be nonsense.

Like every GM in the game, he asks the owner to approve funding any significant investment of this size.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

Like every GM in the game, he asks the owner to approve funding any significant investment of this size.

You don't actually know that. 

That's speculation on your part.

[interloper]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You don't actually know that. 

That's speculation on your part.

Alright, I guess I can't argue that. 

[Sports Guy]

19 minutes ago, interloper said:

For you and me, sure. There's absolutely no way the O's hand out more money than they paid Chris Davis right after they get out of that contract. It's just not going to happen, whether or not it should. 

FTR, I agree that they wouldn't hand out that contract.  But that doesn't mean they shouldn't.

I brought this up before but I read an article a little while back and part of the article touched on the Nats spending the money on Werth.  They knew it wasn't money well spent but they did it anyway.  They wanted to show teams that they were for real and that they needed to bring in someone to help lead the team.

Bryant is a better player than Werth and he's more versatile.  I think its likely he wouldn't be worth 200M over 6 years as he gets well into his 30s but 4 years where he is worth 100-120M and 2 more years where he is worth 20-30 million is very possible IMO.  That's enough value for him for everything else I hope he can provide.

[SteveA]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

FTR, I agree that they wouldn't hand out that contract.  But that doesn't mean they shouldn't.

I brought this up before but I read an article a little while back and part of the article touched on the Nats spending the money on Werth.  They knew it wasn't money well spent but they did it anyway.  They wanted to show teams that they were for real and that they needed to bring in someone to help lead the team.

Bryant is a better player than Werth and he's more versatile.  I think its likely he wouldn't be worth 200M over 6 years as he gets well into his 30s but 4 years where he is worth 100-120M and 2 more years where he is worth 20-30 million is very possible IMO.  That's enough value for him for everything else I hope he can provide.

So our Davis deal didn't "show teams we were for real"?

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, SteveA said:

So our Davis deal didn't "show teams we were for real"?

Keeping your own rarely does imo and it’s long enough ago that right now it’s completely irrelevant.