Olney on O’s losing

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Well first of all, the failures of those starters can also be put at his feet to some extent.

 

Secondly, we agree that the Orioles have had some bad luck with injuries and poor play.

 

For me, I wanted them to add at least one back end of the pen arm and at least 1 real starter and maybe 2.  

Moves don't always work out (I wanted Franco signed too, at least once the other options were gone) but I also want to see a better attempt, especially with the pitching staff.

Were you ok with the Bundy trade?

And if so, what's the difference between just not trading Bundy and taking a flier with a similar FA?

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, 7Mo said:

So you are content waiting 1.5 to 2 more years for guys to work their way from A+ and AA and leave it at that?

You know, man, there's a lot of things in this world I'd change if I could.  Serenity now, man.

I don't know what else to tell you.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

Were you ok with the Bundy trade?

And if so, what's the difference between just not trading Bundy and taking a flier with a similar FA?

Because I would rather have the FA and the pieces we got for Bundy than just Bundy himself.  Buy and sell.

[SteveA]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well first of all, the failures of those starters can also be put at his feet to some extent.

 

Secondly, we agree that the Orioles have had some bad luck with injuries and poor play.

 

For me, I wanted them to add at least one back end of the pen arm and at least 1 real starter and maybe 2.  

Moves don't always work out (I wanted Franco signed too, at least once the other options were gone) but I also want to see a better attempt, especially with the pitching staff.

Which is exactly what I said.   I said the failure in pitcher development is my number one concern with what I have seen this season.  The way the Astros got the most out of pitchers was one of the biggest reasons I was happy when we hired Elias, and so far the results have been really disappointing.   The articles all talked about how the pitchers were analyzed and it was determined which pitches are more effective and which they should throw more, etc.   If it turns out that the Houston magic was nothing but 21st century Fred Biletnikoff stickum, that will be far worse for the future of the Orioles than failure to add a few wins to this season's record.

[Sports Guy]

And btw, added pieces this past offseason didn't need to come in the FA market.  Trades could have been made.  I talked about it a lot but a lot of teams were looking to dump salaries to save money after 2020.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Which is exactly what I said.   I said the failure in pitcher development is my number one concern with what I have seen this season.  The way the Astros got the most out of pitchers was one of the biggest reasons I was happy when we hired Elias, and so far the results have been really disappointing.   The articles all talked about how the pitchers were analyzed and it was determined which pitches are more effective and which they should throw more, etc.   If it turns out that the Houston magic was nothing but 21st century Fred Biletnikoff stickum, that will be far worse for the future of the Orioles than failure to add a few wins to this season's record.

The Stros didn't get a ton out of the pitchers that they developed and had from the start of their pro careers.  

The pitching staff on the WS team was largely from outside the organization. They a also used guys to get Greinke and Verlander, which is certainly what you should be doing but its not like those guys have gone on and done big things.  I think its fair to wonder just how good Elias is at developing and drafting pitching.

[Pickles]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Because I would rather have the FA and the pieces we got for Bundy than just Bundy himself.  Buy and sell.

Ok, I guess.  

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

58 minutes ago, interloper said:

I sympathize with this sentiment, but I also don't know that the O's can do all that much in the offseason. Their best bet is to make a savvy trade or two for some impact MLers, but they aren't going to have much success in free agency until the core proves it's close and the team looks more attractive. 

I agree the time for the Franco's of the world are about done, I just don't know if Elias is going to have many avenues to improve the team this offseason. I'm pretty interested to find out. Gun to my head though? I'd say Elias is going to do almost the exact same thing he did last offseason. 

The O's have $0 committed in 2023. He also inherited Cedric Mullins, Grayson Rodriguez, DL Hall, Ryan Mountcastle, Austin Hays, John Means, and the first overall pick in a draft with a no-brainer potential star from the previous regime. He's been here since 2018 and has traded away lots of talent since then.

There have been plenty of avenues to improve the team; there will be even more avenues to improve the team this offseason. I could put together a winning team too if I was able to tank for years and hoard top draft picks. Elias needs to start putting together a winning team - otherwise any GM could do what he is doing.

[InsideCoroner]

Once it gets revealed that Sports Guy is none other than Cito Gaston making the most of his retirement by focusing on the long con of trolling, I too will be forced to stand and slow clap in admiration. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, InsideCoroner said:

Once it gets revealed that Sports Guy is none other than Cito Gaston making the most of his retirement by focusing on the long con of trolling, I too will be forced to stand and slow clap in admiration. 

I suppose this was supposed to be witty but its pretty dumb.

How exactly am I trolling?

[interloper]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

The O's have $0 committed in 2023. He also inherited Cedric Mullins, Grayson Rodriguez, DL Hall, Ryan Mountcastle, Austin Hays, John Means, and the first overall pick in a draft with a no-brainer potential star from the previous regime. He's been here since 2018 and has traded away lots of talent since then.

There have been plenty of avenues to improve the team; there will be even more avenues to improve the team this offseason. I could put together a winning team too if I was able to tank for years and hoard top draft picks. Elias needs to start putting together a winning team - otherwise any GM could do what he is doing.

I guess what I'm saying is, which positions are you spending money on in the offseason to fill? For me, the options are 3B, SP, and RP. Everywhere else is kind of set with homegrown guys. I don't think signing another Galvis for SS improves the team. But in re: to SP, it's going to be tough getting someone signed here who would be a vast improvement. Obviously they should try, it's just a really tough market to be in if you're a 100-loss team. You're the last place people want to go to. 

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

I guess what I'm saying is, which positions are you spending money on in the offseason to fill? For me, it's 3B, SP, and RP. Everywhere else is kind of set with homegrown guys. But in re: to SP, it's going to be tough getting someone signed here who would be a vast improvement. Obviously they should try, it's just a really tough market to be in if you're a 100-loss team. You're the last place people want to go to. 

Don't forget to mention pitching in the most difficult environment in professional baseball.

The O's are going to have to radically overpay to get FA pitchers- of all tiers except the very bottom.

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Don't forget to mention pitching in the most difficult environment in professional baseball.

The O's are going to have to radically overpay to get FA pitchers- of all tiers except the very bottom.

Exactly, which is how we ended up with guys like Ubaldo and Cobb on whack contracts. 

Meanwhile a guy like Jason Hammel was a great find. We need guys like that. Have to be a little creative. It annoys me that we passed on a guy like Taijuan Walker back when he was had for a 1-year deal. 

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

Exactly, which is how we ended up with guys like Ubaldo and Cobb on whack contracts. 

Meanwhile a guy like Jason Hammel was a great find. We need guys like that. Have to be a little creative. It annoys me that we passed on a guy like Taijuan Walker back when he was had for a 1-year deal. 

If by creative you mean lucky, yeah, that will help.

It's also why trading Dylan Bundy to get prospects,  just to go out and sign a FA pitcher 12 months later because goddamn it I can just taste that 67th win, doesn't make a lot of sense.

Because you're almost certainly going to have pay more for a worse pitcher.

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

8 minutes ago, interloper said:

I guess what I'm saying is, which positions are you spending money on in the offseason to fill? For me, the options are 3B, SP, and RP. Everywhere else is kind of set with homegrown guys. I don't think signing another Galvis for SS improves the team. But in re: to SP, it's going to be tough getting someone signed here who would be a vast improvement. Obviously they should try, it's just a really tough market to be in if you're a 100-loss team. You're the last place people want to go to. 

I don't think the O's have a true SS in the system. Jordan Westburg has been better at SS than I expected, but I think he ultimately ends up at 3B. It's a loaded SS FA Class this year  - it makes sense to add someone there. 

As for pitching - they need lots of it. I don't expect them to drop big money on a 30-something pitcher, but I would hope they try to cast a wider net to get a few Taijuan Walkers of the world to see what sticks. This season they went with Matt Harvey and Felix Hernandez - just completely ridiculous.