Britt joining in on the bash fest

[Moose Milligan]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Will you all be ok with another status quo offseason?  Or do you expect/want to see some larger moves to make the team better.

It'll be what it'll be.  And it'll be another status quo offseason.

I won't like it, but that won't stop me from following the team.  

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If the Os win 55 games in 2022, how long do you think it takes them to get into contention?

I've said before, this back and forth about a timeline to contention is kind of pointless.  It's gonna happen when it's gonna happen...if it happens.  There's a chance it won't.

That said, I don't see how this team contends until 2023, 2024.  

[eddie83]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Sure it does..which is why I mentioned the offense, not the complete game.

And I don’t haft the answers to your question but there are guys, like Nunez, who aren’t always given chances and can do it if given a chance, as Nunez did for us.

Mountcastle isn’t a difficult piece to find.  Mancini was a later round pick and his 2019 season is essentially the ceiling for RM.  They are very similar in a lot of ways.

DD found Nunez. Once again Elias needs to find those types to get us through this portion of the rebuild. That’s on him.  

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I expect to see some better moves. Nothing spectacular. 

But I’m asking if you are ok with that?

[SteveA]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

It’s more than just the failures of guys to develop.  That is certainly at or near the top of the list though.

But that is also an issue.  Elias is failing in developing at the ML level and that was supposed to his strong suit. 

That is what Holt, his hand picked guy to run the organization’s pitching, was supposed to do.  
 

Yep that is my huge concern right now. 

My #1 concern is:

1) can these guys develop pitching talent 

My #2 concern is:

2) are there budget constraints in place that will some them from spending when spending can really make the difference in creating a contending team?  (I do not believe there was a realistic opportunity to spend this past off-season to get someone who could help us long-term; I think it is possible that there will be such opportunities in the coming off season and certainly the one after that and I worry if spending will be allowed).

My #3 concern is the lack of top ten round pitching in all the Elias drafts.

So not doing things to make the 2021 Orioles better, which is the focus of this thread and of the national criticism, doesn't rate my top 3 concerns and if it is even #4 it is a distant 4th.

 

 

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

But I’m asking if you are ok with that?

Yes. as long as the pitching staff is not an embarrassment like it has been this year.  I don’t care how he does it. Under radar guys, internal, decent FA.  Combo.  Whatever works.  
 

I said back in spring this was the most unproven staff I have ever seen in my life. 

[Hank Scorpio]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

If the Os win 55 games in 2022, how long do you think it takes them to get into contention?

I mean... we just need to trade everyone and get some MLB level talent!!!! Then hand out some 7 year contracts... WINNING!!!!!!!!

The truth is I have no idea but I agree with you that there should be some kind of middle ground. I'm not sure what that looks like as it's never been done in my lifetime by this organization. 

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But I’m asking if you are ok with that?

Sure.  I mean, what really are the choices?

I don't think anyone here is going to quit following the team.  If you're hammering out posts on the OH every day like most of us are, you're going to show up no matter what.

You keep asking if people are "ok with that".  Which doesn't make sense to me.  I mean sure, we can get angry and rant and rave on here, that doesn't change anything.  When you keep asking if people are "ok with that," what are the alternatives?  Sure, you can be pissed about no upgrades, losing, etc.  But you're still going to show up, you're still going to watch.  And a certain level you have to "be ok with that."  

 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, SteveA said:

Yep that is my huge concern right now. 

My #1 concern is:

1) can these guys develop pitching talent 

My #2 concern is:

2) are there budget constraints in place that will some them from spending when spending can really make the difference in creating a contending team?  (I do not believe there was a realistic opportunity to spend this past off-season to get someone who could help us long-term; I think it is possible that there will be such opportunities in the coming off season and certainly the one after that and I worry if spending will be allowed).

My #3 concern is the lack of top ten round pitching in all the Elias drafts.

So not doing things to make the 2021 Orioles better, which is the focus of this thread and of the national criticism, doesn't rate my top 3 concerns and if it is even #4 it is a distant 4th.

 

 

Well the inability to develop is a direct issue for 2021 and making the Os better.  If part of the plan is that we will develop pitching better and put these things in place to be good and it’s failing, then it is appropriate to bash the plan.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Ok.

How many are available?

Do they want to play here? 

How much do you have to overpay? 
 

How productive will they be the length of the contract? 

Will it block anyone down the road? 

 

Mountcastle’s upside and athleticism dwarfs Nunez. 

When it comes to pitching, this is always going to be the issue with recruiting pitchers to play at OPACY and against AL East competition. I don't know how hard it would be to do now, but signing a couple under-the-radar pitchers like Wei-Yin Chen and Miguel Gonzalez will go along way towards making this a winning team in 2023. 

I think at some point you have start adding in veteran talent to compliment the players developed through the farm system. I think you can argue that process should start this offseason to give Adley and Grayson a chance to compete next year as rookies. Playoffs isn't going to happen, but at least the Orioles could field a team that isn't getting steamrolled  every game. 

[Hank Scorpio]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But I’m asking if you are ok with that?

My entire baseball watching life has been to be overjoyed with mediocrity but to expect Paul Bako. 

Apologies to Paul Bako.

[SteveA]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If the Os win 55 games in 2022, how long do you think it takes them to get into contention?

If we win 55 games in a year where Rutschman, Rodriguez, Baumann, Brandish, Jones, and others are all going to get their chance at the major league level and we will still likely have Mullins, Mancini, Mountcastle, Hays, Santander, Wells, Means all in their prime - then that will be very, very bad news for the future of the team. 

 

[7Mo]

12 minutes ago, SteveA said:

2) A few moves could have been made to make the floor for this team higher and avoid the current embarrassment.  We don't know why they weren't made but budget is definitely a suspect.

I still say that #2 isn't a big deal (unless it is an indicator that such moves NEVER will be made, then it is a harbinger of doom).  The big deal is that just about every young pitcher we bring up who has had some level of success is a failure.

All the hand wringing in this thread about other moves that should have been made doesn't have 1/100th the importance to me that the development failures do.  And all the national reporters are looking at results and missing that point and assuming, like some fans on here, that Elias is trying to lose. 

Really good post. The only thing I would argue with is "failure" as opposed to "didn't work out this year". Those guys aren't done and over with. Maybe they'll never make it but they're far from a finished product. 

And I think all of that is emphasized because of how large a role they are asked to fill. With an established roster, Akin or Kremer would be asked to come up and spot start, or hope to pitch as the #5 or fill bulk innings out of the pen. With this roster, they're asked to do so much more than when it doesn't work out, it really hurts. 

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Sure.  I mean, what really are the choices?

I don't think anyone here is going to quit following the team.  If you're hammering out posts on the OH every day like most of us are, you're going to show up no matter what.

You keep asking if people are "ok with that".  Which doesn't make sense to me.  I mean sure, we can get angry and rant and rave on here, that doesn't change anything.  When you keep asking if people are "ok with that," what are the alternatives?  Sure, you can be pissed about no upgrades, losing, etc.  But you're still going to show up, you're still going to watch.  And a certain level you have to "be ok with that."  

 

No need to be overly dramatic here.

When I say, are you ok with that you should be able to figure out what I mean.

 Os fans keep talking how this is what we need to do.  How we need to build our foundation, blah blah blah…well, I’m asking if you are ok with that continuing and the team ignoring the ML roster this offseason.

People seem to feel that we just keep putting everything off Until everyone is ready to contribute.  I just don’t get that mindset.

 

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 

 Os fans keep talking how this is what we need to do.  How we need to build our foundation, blah blah blah…well, I’m asking if you are ok with that continuing and the team ignoring the ML roster this offseason.

People seem to feel that we just keep putting everything off Until everyone is ready to contribute.  I just don’t get that mindset.

 

And I'm saying that at a certain level, fans of the team have to be ok with it if they're continuing to show up and watch.  If people aren't ok with it, they shouldn't watch.

Of course I'd prefer to see Elias spend money this offseason and not bring in retreads.  I'd love to see him spend money on the ML roster and bring in guys that can be considered future pieces for the next contending team, whenever that'll be.  You've said that Kris Bryant should be a target and I'd be thrilled if we landed him.  Now you know and I know perfectly well that there's a zero percent chance of the Orioles getting in on the Bryant sweepstakes to begin with, but that's okay.

I think people seem to feel that we keep putting everything off until everyone is ready to contribute because that's what we're actually seeing the team do.  You've made it perfectly clear that you believe that they could have brought in talent at the ML level in order to make a more appealing product while the prospects are developing.  I don't disagree with that.

But it's perfectly clear that if they're going to spend quality money in free agency that they're waiting.  So I guess that's the mindset that Elias has that you don't get.

[Hank Scorpio]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No need to be overly dramatic here.

When I say, are you ok with that you should be able to figure out what I mean.

 Os fans keep talking how this is what we need to do.  How we need to build our foundation, blah blah blah…well, I’m asking if you are ok with that continuing and the team ignoring the ML roster this offseason.

People seem to feel that we just keep putting everything off Until everyone is ready to contribute.  I just don’t get that mindset.

 

The last two decades of watching this organization has a tendency to grind one into a fine paste. Now that I've got kids, it's become much less about "I DEMAND SATISFACTION!" and more about "Hey, look buddy!!! They're playing baseball!!!" 

When you say "putting everything off" what do you mean, exactly? Winning 72 games? Not being an embarrassment? Picking 11th instead of 5th?

I would say that so far, Elias has done a representable job transforming the entire organization. I would feel better about things if Kjerstad was not battling heart inflammation, obviously. I would also feel better if we had more high end pitching talent in the pipeline. 

I just don't see how they procure the necessary pitching upgrades to get much better next year. Their pitching has been historically bad. Like, unbelievably bad. I feel like you could literally replace the ML pitching with Norfolk & Bowie's pitching and it would be significantly better.