The Marauding Delmarva Offense

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Regardless of whether they get promoted as fast as some want or not, it is clear that the effect of taking 9 college bats in the first 10 rounds is going to have a ripple effect upwards throughout the system.   With that much 21+ year old talent coming in the bottom, they will HAVE to advance at a certain pace...as I said, maybe not as fast as SG & others would prefer, but they will advance.

That is going to force guys above them in the system who are performing to move up as well.   I think we will see 5 or 6 legitimate position player prospects make their major league debut next year, which will be nice.   

And it also means guys like Diaz are going to be in a last chance type scenario where they have to produce at AAA/MLB or they will be trampled by the herd coming up behind them.

Looking forward to it.   From a position player point of view, watching the farm system next year is going to be really exciting.

Wish I could say the same for pitching.

And before wrong info is said, as I think is being implied, we are only talking about a few players...not a philosophy as a whole.  There are certain guys that should move faster than others.  That's just common sense.

 

[Frobby]

For what it’s worth, I see 4 first round college position players who are in high A — (1) Henry Davis (but now out with a strained oblique), (15) Sal Frelick, (17) Matt McLain and (35) Mat Nelson.  3 are in low A — (5) Colton Cowser, (20) Trey Sweeney and (33) Tyler Black.   

[interloper]

5 hours ago, RZNJ said:

So typical. A thread started to be positive about the initial success of Mayo and the 2021 class.  How long does it take to turn into a negative thread on how the players aren't being handled properly.  Funny stuff.  The same old gang at it again.  If only they were in charge, our farm system would be run properly.  LOL

I guess my thing is just - can we wait a year or two and actually see if Elias' method works before we bash it? Normally this board likes evidence, and things like minor league development and the coaching/structural overhaul with the minor leagues is all still pretty new. The minor leagues under Elias/Blood seem unified in their philosophy way more than past regimes, so I think it's only fair to see if it works or not. 

And we've seen guys move 3 levels in a year (Westburg), so I think they can still be somewhat aggressive. 

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, interloper said:

I guess my thing is just - can we wait a year or two and actually see if Elias' method works before we bash it? Normally this board likes evidence, and things like minor league development and the coaching/structural overhaul with the minor leagues is all still pretty new. The minor leagues under Elias/Blood seem unified in their philosophy way more than past regimes, so I think it's only fair to see if it works or not. 

And we've seen guys move 3 levels in a year (Westburg), so I think they can still be somewhat aggressive. 

Moving 3 levels when you don’t start at the proper level doesn’t mean much.

[interloper]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Moving 3 levels when you don’t start at the proper level doesn’t mean much.

I think my point was that, maybe we feel different about what "proper" means if this all works out and we have a high rate of guys coming up who are impact players. It would be great to hear more from Elias and Blood about what the philosophy is and why they do it this way. Then we'd have a lot more to talk about other than "I think this is fine" vs "I think this sucks". 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

I think my point was that, maybe we feel different about what "proper" means if this all works out and we have a high rate of guys coming up who are impact players. It would be great to hear more from Elias and Blood about what the philosophy is and why they do it this way. Then we'd have a lot more to talk about other than "I think this is fine" vs "I think this sucks". 

No..because there is no proper for everyone.  There is a general philosophy that applies to most players..but not everyone should be treated the same.  It’s dumb to put everyone in the same category and treat them all as equals.  

[Yossarian]

6 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

They draft these college kids high and then assign them as if they were a year out of HS.  I don't get it. 

exactly

[interloper]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No..because there is no proper.  There is a general philosophy that applies to most players..but not everyone should be treated the same.  It’s dumb to put everyone in the same category and treat them all as equals.  

I don't think they are doing that as much as it may seem. I really think a lot of this could also boil down to the lost year in 2020 and they want to ease guys in. I get that folks don't agree with that, I'm just offering another angle of why they're being conservative. 

Anyway. 

[RZNJ]

11 minutes ago, interloper said:

I think my point was that, maybe we feel different about what "proper" means if this all works out and we have a high rate of guys coming up who are impact players. It would be great to hear more from Elias and Blood about what the philosophy is and why they do it this way. Then we'd have a lot more to talk about other than "I think this is fine" vs "I think this sucks". 

You are arguing with someone who has zero years of developmental baseball experience who thinks he should advise a guy who has had years of  success in helping to build successful farm systems, had access to all sorts of analytical data, and scouts/coaches.  Elias uses all that and decides on what he thinks is best.  But SportsGuy knows the proper level to start each guy and what is the proper level they should be at.  He's either a complete genius or a complete idiot.  You decide.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

You are arguing with someone who has zero years of developmental baseball experience who thinks you should advise a guy who has had years of  success in helping to build successful farm systems, had access to all sorts of analytical data, and scouts/coaches.  Elias uses all that and decides on what he thinks is best.  But SportsGuy knows the proper level to start each guy and what is the proper level they should be at.  He's either a complete genius or a complete idiot.  You decide.

I'm hoping to not argue if I can help it. I just think all of the criticisms of Elias would have a lot more weight after it's clear their organizational philosophy wasn't working. They've completely overhauled how the organization works; they had to rebuild the whole engine top to bottom. They've had 2 full drafts and one with literally 5 guys in it. Their whole farm system with its new unified approach and bevvy of new young JUCO coaching hires wasn't active in 2020. I just think it's so early for some of these criticisms to have much weight other than "I would do it differently". Which, hey, that's message boards. 

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

I'm hoping to not argue if I can help it. I just think all of the criticisms of Elias would have a lot more weight after it's clear their organizational philosophy wasn't working. They've completely overhauled how the organization works; they had to rebuild the whole engine top to bottom. They've had 2 full drafts and one with literally 5 guys in it. Their whole farm system with its new unified approach and bevvy of new young JUCO coaching hires wasn't active in 2020. I just think it's so early for some of these criticisms to have much weight other than "I would do it differently". Which, hey, that's message boards. 

Okay, you are trying to have a reasonable discussion with someone and asking them to have an open mind and be reasonable as well.  How's that working out? 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

I'm hoping to not argue if I can help it. I just think all of the criticisms of Elias would have a lot more weight after it's clear their organizational philosophy wasn't working. They've completely overhauled how the organization works; they had to rebuild the whole engine top to bottom. They've had 2 full drafts and one with literally 5 guys in it. Their whole farm system with its new unified approach and bevvy of new young JUCO coaching hires wasn't active in 2020. I just think it's so early for some of these criticisms to have much weight other than "I would do it differently". Which, hey, that's message boards. 

The thing is, I'm not saying this won't work.  I don't think SG is saying it won't work.

I think it is overly conservative, at least with some players. 

Keeping a player at a level where he isn't challenged for a few months isn't going to be a career ending move.  I just think that the more optimal approach would involve challenging certain players.

[sportsfan8703]

8 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

They draft these college kids high and then assign them as if they were a year out of HS.  I don't get it. 

Draft high. Assign low.  Grow the bats. Buy the arms. Duh. Haha

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

The thing is, I'm not saying this won't work.  I don't think SG is saying it won't work.

I think it is overly conservative, at least with some players. 

Keeping a player at a level where he isn't challenged for a few months isn't going to be a career ending move.  I just think that the more optimal approach would involve challenging certain players.

But they did challenge Westburg.  3 levels in a year. As the tanking stops up top, the slow playing of prospects will to. 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

But they did challenge Westburg.  3 levels in a year. As the tanking stops up top, the slow playing of prospects will to. 

Which means he isn't doing it to best prepare the players....right?