MLB CBA/Labor Dispute Thread

[Frobby]

12 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

I thought Scott Erickson had the biggest contract in O's history for a pitcher.  I was surprised when I looked it up and it was "only" $32 million.

Which contract was bigger, Ubaldo or Cobb?

 

Cobb.  

[NCRaven]

21 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Did it hurt Jamie Walker or Kevin Millar?

Yes.  The scabs were never allowed to become members of the MLBPA, participate in their benefits or receive a share of any of the licensing fees that MLBPA collects for video games and other revenues.  The benefits of membership in that union are pretty substantial.

[LA2]

9 hours ago, foxfield said:

Kevin Brown definitely did this, as noted earlier.  And I think while in general your comment is on point, it is on point more because of ownerships desire to avoid FA markets, especially for pitchers.  In fact it is worth pointing out that Brown signed with the Orioles after the last work stoppage and had a 1 year deal.  After a tenure with the Marlins and then Padres, he became the first $100,000,000 man in baseball with a 7 year deal in LA with the Dodgers.

The Orioles just don't move in these markets under Angelos.  This has less to do pitchers avoiding competing with the Yankees, Red Sox or Rays and Jays or even Camden Yards.  It's almost entirely because, the Orioles hate spending money on those guys who play once a week.  And when they do it is not at the top of the market.  Hell Angelos couldn't even be bothered to keep an Ace in Mussina.

Fortunately, you did not say Name 2.  Cause I can't.  Lol.

The very disappointing Kris Benson wasn't a FA (acquired in 2006 in exchange for Jorge Julio and John Maine), but the O's were willing to pay an exceedingly generous salary for him, if we compare with other prominent, roughly 31-year-old starting pitchers of the time, e.g. Chris Carpenter, Kelvim Escobar, and Ted Lilly, all of whom ended up outperforming him significantly.

[Can_of_corn]

2 hours ago, NCRaven said:

Yes.  The scabs were never allowed to become members of the MLBPA, participate in their benefits or receive a share of any of the licensing fees that MLBPA collects for video games and other revenues.  The benefits of membership in that union are pretty substantial.

True.  I was thinking specifically about employment and legacy but your point is valid.

[Just Regular]

ESPN Passan today has a detail I had been fuzzy on: tender/non-tender decision deadline apparently does happen before this CBA expires, so Yankees Gary Sanchez and whatever other fun ones are out there will be known before the lockout.

The next day is Dec. 1, when the CBA expires at midnight. It's the tender deadline date, which means if a team plans to keep a player, it must tender -- or offer -- him a contract. Players who are going to be non-tendered often wind up on the trade market in the days before, with teams looking to salvage anything instead of just sending them out into free agency, where they go after being non-tendered.

[DrungoHazewood]

On 11/3/2021 at 7:54 PM, Can_of_corn said:

Did it hurt Jamie Walker or Kevin Millar?

Yes, when they became free agents they found themselves outcasts and had to settle on playing for the Orioles.

[interloper]

On 11/4/2021 at 5:01 PM, NCRaven said:

Yes.  The scabs were never allowed to become members of the MLBPA, participate in their benefits or receive a share of any of the licensing fees that MLBPA collects for video games and other revenues.  The benefits of membership in that union are pretty substantial.

Oh yeah, haha, I remember playing an old MLB The Show when Millar was like Chuck Milford or some nonsense but you knew it was him. Good times. 

[Camden_yardbird]

The latest in negotiations from the athletic is tying pre-FA salaries to fWAR.

Players granted FA at 29.5 years, which seems a bit late to me.  If I were a player I would want FA at 27-28.

[connja]

30 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

The latest in negotiations from the athletic is tying pre-FA salaries to fWAR.

Players granted FA at 29.5 years, which seems a bit late to me.  If I were a player I would want FA at 27-28.

I only worry that players will be even more incented to play for the stats than for the best of the team.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, connja said:

I only worry that players will be even more incented to play for the stats than for the best of the team.

I think that in the overwhelming majority of circumstances the end result will be the same.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, connja said:

I only worry that players will be even more incented to play for the stats than for the best of the team.

They should use Bill James’ Win Shares.   Probably not as good a stat as WAR but it assigns players a share of the wins the team actually had.   So there’s your incentive to put team wins above individual stats, or at least make them important.  

[forphase1]

4 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

The latest in negotiations from the athletic is tying pre-FA salaries to fWAR.

Players granted FA at 29.5 years, which seems a bit late to me.  If I were a player I would want FA at 27-28.

FA at 29.5, no matter what age they are drafted?  If so I wonder if that impacts the drafting strategies in regards to high school kids versus college.  

[wildcard]

I think MLB will offer 29.5 age or 6 years of MLB service.  That benefits the late bloomers while allowing the superstars to continue to reach FA in there mid 20's.

That along with a WAR based arbitration years system will a get good player played more early.

I also think they will raise the 1-3 year base salary to 800K for year 0, 900k for year i and 1M for year 2.

JMO

[scOtt]

10 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that in the overwhelming majority of circumstances the end result will be the same.

This. You hit what you can hit. If you do well, the team does well too.

[scOtt]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

I think MLB will offer 29.5 age or 6 years of MLB service.  That benefits the late bloomers while allowing the superstars to continue to reach FA in there mid 20's.

That along with a WAR basic arbitration years system will a get good player played more early.

I also think they will raise the 1-3 year base salary to 800K for year 0, 900k for year i and 1M for year 2.

JMO

That's a big payroll raise, especially for a team like ours.

 

Which may be what the owners, Manfred especially and all the nattering nabobs, might be aiming for.