Drew Hutchison?

[owknows]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't know.  Could someone else get more out of a Bradish?

It seems like pretty standard results that every team gets.

Gotta say the bullpen is a market outperform to say the least...  

Is every pitcher gonna find it all the time with any coach?  Of course not.

 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, owknows said:

Gotta say the bullpen is a market outperform to say the least...  

Is every pitcher gonna find it all the time with any coach?  Of course not.

 

Yes the Bullpen is doing very well at the moment.

I'm not sure how much credit a pitching coach should get for a half season of quality bullpen.

[Moose Milligan]

16 minutes ago, owknows said:

Setting aside your all-consuming need to ridicule Wildcard for a moment, don't you think that Holt has performed well with the resources he has?

I think he's done decent.  I would fall short of calling him a genius, wizard, etc.  The rotation leaves a lot to be desired.

[LTO's]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yes the Bullpen is doing very well at the moment.

I'm not sure how much credit a pitching coach should get for a half season of quality bullpen.

How much blame should he get for senior sign non-prospects like Zimmerman and washed up vets like Watkins, Lyles, Harvey etc not pitching well in the toughest division in baseball? This is the Holt dilemma.

I'd say if the bullpen finishes the season top 10 and guys like Kremer, Wells and Akin continue to pitch well, he's absolutely done a good job. We'll have to see about that though. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, LTO's said:

How much blame should he get for senior sign non-prospects like Zimmerman and washed up vets like Watkins, Lyles, Harvey etc not pitching well in the toughest division in baseball? This is the Holt dilemma.

I'd say if the bullpen finishes the season top 10 and guys like Kremer, Wells and Akin continue to pitch well, he's absolutely done a good job. We'll have to see about that though. 

I'm not ripping him.

His results with the O's seem to me to be in the general area one would expect.

 

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, LTO's said:

How much blame should he get for senior sign non-prospects like Zimmerman and washed up vets like Watkins, Lyles, Harvey etc not pitching well in the toughest division in baseball? This is the Holt dilemma.

I'd say if the bullpen finishes the season top 10 and guys like Kremer, Wells and Akin continue to pitch well, he's absolutely done a good job. We'll have to see about that though. 

I'm nitpicking, but I think you gotta pump the brakes on the early Kremer returns.  

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

We've got Lyles and Wells, then Hall coming soon and Grayson in Sept. Not a lot of room for a guy like Hutchison unless something happens.

Wells  and Hall are  supposed to be on innings limits for the year.    That include  minor league innings.    By the time Grayson is ready in Sept (if that happens) Wells may be passed his pitch limit.  Plus the roster expands from 26 to 28 in Sept.  So the O's will probably add at least one pitcher in Sept.

[owknows]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yes the Bullpen is doing very well at the moment.

I'm not sure how much credit a pitching coach should get for a half season of quality bullpen.

I'm never sure how much credit a coach gets ever.

But I tend to give coaching the benefit of the doubt when expectations are radically exceeded, as has been the case with the bullpen.

And even there, I think a significant tip of the cap may go to Chirinos and Rutschman.

[owknows]

12 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think he's done decent.  I would fall short of calling him a genius, wizard, etc.  The rotation leaves a lot to be desired.

I think we generally agree..  But I think there's less to work with at the moment.

But they've managed to squeeze some toothpaste out of the Lyles tube that everyone thought was empty...

[LTO's]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm nitpicking, but I think you gotta pump the brakes on the early Kremer returns.  

No doubt. Was just using him as an example of someone to watch the rest of the way.

It's tough with a lot of these guys (Akin, Kremer, Bradish, Wells etc.) because none of them, despite having good stuff and being hyped by this fanbase, were expected by any scouting pubs to be anything but fringe starters to bulk guys in the bigs. And they're facing the best lineups baseball has to offer on an almost nightly basis.  Evaluating Holt will be really difficult until studs like Hall and Grayrod make it up and/or an established, reliable vet is signed. 

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, owknows said:

I think we generally agree..  But I think there's less to work with at the moment.

But they've managed to squeeze some toothpaste out of the Lyles tube that everyone thought was empty...

Lyles is at -.4 rWAR with an ERA over 5 and a WHIP over 1.5 and on pace for ~170 IP.

That isn't much out of line with what I was expecting.

[wildcard]

Bautista was suppose to be wild.  Have not seen that this year.

Lopez has never pitched like this under any other coach.  And he has had several.  A Waiver claim.

Perez and Krehbiel are both waiver claims that are doing better under Holt than they have done anywhere either.

Akin has changed his approach to pitching.  Throw strikes. Trust your stuff.  Don't nibble.  Changed from starter to reliever.  Under Holt.

Tate has made steady progress under Holt.

Tyle Wells has gone from reliever to closer to starter under Holt.  Looks like a keeper to me.

Lyles is about as advertised.

Too early to tell on Kremer.  

Bradish is a work in progress.  Has not learn to consistently control  his pitches enough.  May need more time in AAA.  He only pitched well in AAA for one month - Sept.

Holt also directs the minors so he influences what happens with Grayson, DL Hall and all of the other minors league pitchers.  

Holt has a big job. 

 

[owknows]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Lyles is at -.4 rWAR with an ERA over 5 and a WHIP over 1.5 and on pace for ~170 IP.

That isn't much out of line with what I was expecting.

You were more optimistic than I. 

 

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, owknows said:

You were more optimistic than I. 

 

Oh he's done better than I thought he would, just not much better.

Sounds like you expected him to be out of the rotation by now.

[owknows]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Oh he's done better than I thought he would, just not much better.

Sounds like you expected him to be out of the rotation by now.

Yeah...  I was expecting next to nothing from him.