A question for those who remember 1989

[Jammer7]

2 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Hey, I subscribed to The Sporting News, and they published some minor league stats.  I forget if that was weekly?  I think weekly.  So I at least had some inkling that Finley won the IL batting title in '88, and Worthington was the IL MVP (despite hitting .244-16-73).  And I'm quite sure I took Milacki's 1988 debut (three starts, 25 innings, two earned runs, and a 10 strikeout shutout of the Yanks) as indisputable evidence that he was the next Jim Palmer.

But, no, no one expected anything.  When they beat Clemens on opening day the Sun put something like "First Place Orioles" in big type on the front page (I don't recall if it was the sports section or the whole paper) and everyone knew it was 100% tongue-in-cheek.

I was “haze gray and underway” in the US Navy by then. I missed a lot of that season, unfortunately. I subscribed to Baseball America and usually picked up the Sporting News weekly (when I was home), though I think USA Today was involved in that weekly magazine as well.

I remember the era more than that year. We had all those young pitchers. I remember Pete Harnisch and Curt Schilling as promising hard throwers and young OF’s Finley, Devo and Anderson. I thought Phil Bradley was under appreciated. 

I remember growing up watching Murray, Ripken and Singleton thinking that Oriole hitters would always be great. The failures of Mike Young and Al Pardo, the young switch-hitting catcher stud, really had me puzzled. I was hoping Pete Stanicek was going to end that drought of good switch-hitters. I remember Mickey Tettleton, aka “Fruit Loops” being the biggest surprise power hitter for me.

I remember Craig Worthington being a highly regarded prospect. I remember him being drafted in the first round of the secondary draft, which is no longer a thing. 

We had Randy “Moose” Milligan and I remember he was a high OBP guy. Funny, he is the first guy I remember hearing that it was a good trait to walk a lot. I was comparing him to Murray in my mind, and I remember being down on him because he didn’t hit like Eddie. 

We had the Otter, a legitimate closer and a solid set up guy in Mark Williamson. Kevin Hickey was pretty solid as well.

That team had Cal and Billy. I remember feeling sad about how Cal Sr. was treated. But Frank was the manager, and I always felt cheated that I never really saw Frank and Brooks play. I was too young. 

It was a strange time in baseball as PED’s were taking over. I remember that ‘89 team defied logic. I wondered what I really knew about baseball if that team was a contender. I learned the Blue Jays had tremendous talent, and I hated them almost as much as the Yankees.

As far as comparing this team to that ‘89 team, very different outlooks. This one has young talent everywhere except the rotation. The future is bright. The fans know far more about the coming young studs. The ‘89 team was a team in transition in many ways. Take a moment and hit the link to go down memory lane. 
 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/1989_Baltimore_Orioles

[SteveA]

8 hours ago, JR Oriole said:

I really hated the Blue Jays after that season.  In 1990 we were out of it but the Jays had to come to Baltimore to close the season and were 1 game behind Boston with 3 to play.  In the last game of the season, Brunansky made a game saving catch in right field in Fenway and that officially eliminated the Jays.  Literally 5 minutes after the Jays saw the highlight on the Jumbotron at Memorial Stadium, Tettleton hit a game winning homer in the 9th off the Terminator.  Was one of those absolute no-doubters that Proctor on TV and Miller on the radio called gone immediately.  We took 2 of 3 from Toronto that weekend and that was a hell of a way to end the season.  Was almost as good as 2011 and wrecking Boston, only to have Longoria put the nail in the coffin 3 minutes later.  

Yep I remember that game well.  One of the rare tunes I sat in the Mezzanine seats at Memorial Stadium.  What a great view from those, so low and close to the action (imagine if the front row of the club level at OPaCY was moved forward 30 feet!  Right on top of the action).

[Roll Tide]

3 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

I wasn't an Orioles fan yet in 1989, so I cannot comment. I can say that 2012 was very enjoyable. And so has been this year in the last two months. Unpopular opinion here, perhaps, but I think it was disrespectful to the team by the FO to trade Mancini and the closer during this season. Were they going to win the world series if no trade? Very likely no. But you just don't mess with this kind of mojo. You just want to let it roll and see how far it can take you. You never know when you are going to get it again.

This team/system is being built for long term success. It was sad to see Mancini go, didn’t really care one way or the other on Lopez because I feel we sold high. But, Elias has turned a shit show in to a solid organization. So playing the long game is his plan and I trust that he knows what he’s doing.

[now]

21 hours ago, Remember The Alomar said:

... a jolt of excitement and appreciation for this squad. Curious if/when that hit for the people who experienced '89.

Just to add a riff on the OP... in the case of '66 the jolt of recognition we had a winner came on December 9, 1965 with the trade for Frank Robinson.

[ExileAngelos]

7 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I was a freshman in college at Virginia Tech, and I had to "watch" the Olson curveball game on Headline News because it wasn't on Blacksburg cable and I couldn't pick up an Orioles radio station there.

LOL do you remember getting the scores every half hour on ESPN?  I think it was 28 and 58 on the clock.

[Filmstudy]

21 hours ago, Remember The Alomar said:

I was a few months away from being born so, sadly, I missed the '89 season. But, for those who have vivid memories of it: How does the 2022 season compare to it thus far? When did you start to believe that team was special? 

I don't want to get ahead of myself, as this current team could still collapse. But, for some reason, tonight's win really gave me a jolt of excitement and appreciation for this squad. Curious if/when that hit for the people who experienced '89.

For me (26 at the time), the season was one of continued suspension of disbelief.

Every night was critical and a struggle, because the Orioles didn't have any truly great starting pitchers (we told ourselves Milacki and Ballard were).  Jay Tibbs, who had gone 4-15, 5.39 ERA, 1.56 WHIP in the horrible 1988 season improved his WHIP to 1.51 and his record to 5-0 in 8 starts.  Pete Harnisch, Dave Schmidt, and Dave Johnson each had a brief period as the Orioles best starter, because the staff was falling apart in late Summer.

Stanley Jefferson, an awful journeyman OF (66 career OPS+) joined the Orioles in mid August and led the team down the stretch in RBI with 20.  Ripken, who received significant MVP support in a league bereft of candidates, had perhaps his worst offensive season to that point in his career (105+), but he had a good defensive season which earned him some votes. 

The offense was led by Mickey Tettleton, who had his breakout year with a 150 OPS+ and Randy Milligan who was acquired in a trade with the Pirates as a washed up 27-year-old AAA 1B, but proved to be a patient hitter who put up a 144 OPS+.  Phil Bradley had a solid 124 OPS+ in the leadoff spot.  

All that was OK, because at the trade deadline the Orioles acquired Keith Moreland, a "professional hitter" who turned out to be one of the least impactful trade acquisitions to a contender with -1.1 WAA in 111 PAs.  

Despite all of their deficiencies, the Orioles kept scraping out wins at a rate 4 better (87-75 vs 83-79) than Pythaguras would have expected based on their +22 run differential.

The atmosphere tense every night, the crowds were raucous and bought into the "Why Not?" season, and the players forgot the 1988 season and delivered a remarkable effort that fell 2 games short of the Blue Jays.

This season is similar in a key respect...I don't see a reason to believe in this group of starting pitchers, but they are getting by and leading the team right now.  The 2022 bullpen is significantly better/deeper than 1989 which was held together by Olson/Williamson/duct tape.  Rutschman is the best player on either team, but I'd say the 1989 team had a more balanced set of offensive players.  One thing that gives me hope about the 2022 team is that they have much better management and ready talent in the minor leagues.  If they remain close to the end of this month, I believe they'll make the moves needed (including benching Odor) to add by subtraction (and addition).

But to answer the original question, in terms of suspension of disbelief, there are definitely some similarities in 2022 to how I felt watching baseball in the Summer of 1989, but the playoffs are also a MUCH lower bar (and payoff) than they were in the 2-division, pre-wild-card era. 

[Remember The Alomar]

52 minutes ago, Filmstudy said:

For me (26 at the time), the season was one of continued suspension of disbelief.

Every night was critical and a struggle, because the Orioles didn't have any truly great starting pitchers (we told ourselves Milacki and Ballard were).  Jay Tibbs, who had gone 4-15, 5.39 ERA, 1.56 WHIP in the horrible 1988 season improved his WHIP to 1.51 and his record to 5-0 in 8 starts.  Pete Harnisch, Dave Schmidt, and Dave Johnson each had a brief period as the Orioles best starter, because the staff was falling apart in late Summer.

Stanley Jefferson, an awful journeyman OF (66 career OPS+) joined the Orioles in mid August and led the team down the stretch in RBI with 20.  Ripken, who received significant MVP support in a league bereft of candidates, had perhaps his worst offensive season to that point in his career (105+), but he had a good defensive season which earned him some votes. 

The offense was led by Mickey Tettleton, who had his breakout year with a 150 OPS+ and Randy Milligan who was acquired in a trade with the Pirates as a washed up 27-year-old AAA 1B, but proved to be a patient hitter who put up a 144 OPS+.  Phil Bradley had a solid 124 OPS+ in the leadoff spot.  

All that was OK, because at the trade deadline the Orioles acquired Keith Moreland, a "professional hitter" who turned out to be one of the least impactful trade acquisitions to a contender with -1.1 WAA in 111 PAs.  

Despite all of their deficiencies, the Orioles kept scraping out wins at a rate 4 better (87-75 vs 83-79) than Pythaguras would have expected based on their +22 run differential.

The atmosphere tense every night, the crowds were raucous and bought into the "Why Not?" season, and the players forgot the 1988 season and delivered a remarkable effort that fell 2 games short of the Blue Jays.

This season is similar in a key respect...I don't see a reason to believe in this group of starting pitchers, but they are getting by and leading the team right now.  The 2022 bullpen is significantly better/deeper than 1989 which was held together by Olson/Williamson/duct tape.  Rutschman is the best player on either team, but I'd say the 1989 team had a more balanced set of offensive players.  One thing that gives me hope about the 2022 team is that they have much better management and ready talent in the minor leagues.  If they remain close to the end of this month, I believe they'll make the moves needed (including benching Odor) to add by subtraction (and addition).

But to answer the original question, in terms of suspension of disbelief, there are definitely some similarities in 2022 to how I felt watching baseball in the Summer of 1989, but the playoffs are also a MUCH lower bar (and payoff) than they were in the 2-division, pre-wild-card era. 

This is an excellent post, Filmstudy. I really appreciate you merging history with modern stats. It really helped me put everything into perspective.  

[DrungoHazewood]

8 hours ago, Filmstudy said:

...and Randy Milligan who was acquired in a trade with the Pirates as a washed up 27-year-old AAA 1B, but proved to be a patient hitter who put up a 144 OPS+. 

8 hours ago, Filmstudy said:

But to answer the original question, in terms of suspension of disbelief, there are definitely some similarities in 2022 to how I felt watching baseball in the Summer of 1989, but the playoffs are also a MUCH lower bar (and payoff) than they were in the 2-division, pre-wild-card era. 

Milligan wasn't washed up so much as completely unappreciated in the Jurassic period of analytics.  He had a 1.033 OPS for the Tidewater Tides in 1987, including 91 walks and 29 homers in 136 games.  But the Mets rewarded that with two September PAs, and traded him to the Pirates for Tim Drummond and Mackey Sasser.  His power disappeared in '88, but still had a .379 OBP for the Pirates in 40 games.  Back then nobody wanted a 27-year-old rookie 1B with moderate power, so they let him go, too.  Traded to the O's for Pete Blohm, who'd just gone 4-5 in the NY-Penn League and would never play in the majors.

The '89 Orioles didn't have a wildcard to shoot for, but they got very lucky with the playoff situation.  The AL East was weak that year.  The O's finished just 2.0 games out of the playoffs despite having the 5th-best record in the league. It was rare for 89 wins to take the AL East.  It did happen in '88, too, but that year five teams were between 85-89 wins. Before '88 the only times no AL East team won 90+ games were strike years ('72 and '81).

[Hank Scorpio]

16 hours ago, Frobby said:

It was terrible, but the truth is that the 2018 and 2021 teams did worse, and the 2021 team was just as bad.  I can’t say the 1988 team was any more embarrassing than those, though the 0-21 start drained any enjoyment of that season before it had even gotten started.  

I’d say one difference though between 1989 and 2012 is we hadn’t been in some deliberate long term rebuild.  The fans now had reason to expect the team would turn a corner at least somewhat this year, though nobody expected this big a turnaround.   But I don’t think anyone was expecting a big change in ‘89.   We didn’t have a Rutschman everyone had been pinning their hopes on (until we drafted Ben McDonald that summer).  The young guys who played a big role in ‘89 hadn’t gotten much attention. And — I say in all candor — there was no Orioles Hangout or other forum for fans to get excited about how our minor league players or young players who hadn’t quite blossomed yet might do in the future.  We knew whatever Chuck Thompson told us, and not much more.  And that wasn’t a lot. 
 

I kind of miss TWIB.

 

[spleen1015]

I miss it too. I also miss Baseball Tonight which might be obsolete now since we have the MLB Network?

 

[Uli2001]

On 8/7/2022 at 8:09 AM, Hank Scorpio said:

I kind of miss TWIB.

 

Three errors by the same player in one play? It is probably the record.

[GuidoSarducci]

On 8/6/2022 at 10:46 AM, ExileAngelos said:

I was 18 for the Why Not season.  Nothing compares to it.  Was a different time.  It was my first year at college.  Freshmen had to park about a mile from campus.  There was no internet and no way to watch on TV.  I would make that walk to my car to barely pull in WTOP and hang on Jon Miller's every third word or so I could make out lol.  I came home for the Toronto weekend and watched that Gregg Olson curveball hit the dirt.  That 18 year old fell to the ground and cried. 

That was my first true sports heartbreak - I went on a mini-tantrum, I remember writing an "Orioles suck" over and over on a piece of paper ... didn't appreciate what the season had meant at the time.

[linedrive]

Fun thread. Very enjoyable.

I was a Junior in college and kept track of the O's season by going to the library every day and reading the Baltimore Sun. Man, I still love that team! And Gregg Olson. I thought for sure we'd go from Worst to First. What a fun season with so many beloved players and memories. Needless to say, that ending though... heartbreaking...

Funny thing, one of my best friends in college was a Blue Jays fan. So annoying. But I've never known any other Blue Jays fan since.

[ExileAngelos]

12 hours ago, linedrive said:

Fun thread. Very enjoyable.

I was a Junior in college and kept track of the O's season by going to the library every day and reading the Baltimore Sun. Man, I still love that team! And Gregg Olson. I thought for sure we'd go from Worst to First. What a fun season with so many beloved players and memories. Needless to say, that ending though... heartbreaking...

Funny thing, one of my best friends in college was a Blue Jays fan. So annoying. But I've never known any other Blue Jays fan since.

Worst to first meant something back then.  Making the postseason was special.  Playing 162 games served a purpose.  Those were the days.

[Number5]

35 minutes ago, ExileAngelos said:

 Those were the days.

When men were men.  Get off my lawn!