Cubs trade DeRosa to Indians; Does this mean Pie for Olson back on??

[PaulBako]

He's a first baseman, something we need desperately, even more than pitching.

We haven't been able to find a LT solution since 1998.

He should able to move back to the OF.

Ackley is not a top 5 pick as a 1B. But he might be as a 2B or OF.

[Mike B]

How did HE get the enthusiasm up? Did AM ever come out and say "I think we are in the lead to get him!" "OMG GUYZ SERIOUSLY WE R SOOO CLOZE!!!"

The most excited AM ever got about it was "we are in it until we are told otherwise."

WOW, might as well just run into a movie theater and yell fire with that type of riot generating language.

It was US, we did it to ourselves. We relied on insiders info and internet rumors and we ran with it and formulated our own theories as to what was going on and came to our own conclusions.

We looked at the wrapped box under the Christmas tree. It was the same size, roughly, of a new Xbox so we got all excited for a new xbox. We convinced ourselves it was a new Xbox. We started talking about all the awesome games we would play, how getting online would be great. we dreamed about it, we couldn't wait.

But then we realized it was clothes and we blame our parents for "getting our hopes up".

AM even said, "don't pay attention to the rumors."

Bottom line is this: How many times do we here people say "we should just put our offer on the table and tell him 'take it or leave it.'?" That is essentially what MacPhail did. He put the offer on the table, that would have made Tex one of the highest paid players in the game and the highest paid Oriole of all time, told him we would be willing to move on it and get back to us.

MacPhail didn't want to get into a bidding war in the press, he didn't want Tex to use the Orioles like he used the Red Sox and Nationals to drive his price up. I think it is as simple as that.

What would have happened on this board if MacPhail and Angelos were the ones that flew out to Texas and then were sent home with their tail between their legs like the Sox were? How would the board have reacted to that I wonder?

Very Good Post

[Mackus]

He's a first baseman, something we need desperately, even more than pitching.

We haven't been able to find a LT solution since 1998.

Drafting for need is idiotic. Take the best player available, regardless of position.

If you have two guys you rate pretty much equally, then need can be a tie-breaker.

[Scrat1]

A Mark Grace/Chase Utley type player at 1B is not a bad thing at all, and is better than we have in our system.

It's a lot better than taking a HS arm that could completely bust.

We need ML ready position players that can step in in the next 1-2 seasons, not pitchers...

Couldn't disagree more. I'd much rather have Matzek than Ackley. I'm not really all that concerned about the 1B situation. Snyder or Rowell will likely end up there, and even if they don't, it isn't that tough to find a decent external option (ie Garko). Pitching prospects, however, are like currency. You can't have too many. It's true that he could be a complete bust, but that's always the case. That's why you stockpile them. If you have enough of them, some of them will pan out. They also make great trade chips.

Our middle infield depth is awful, however, and if Ackley could be moved to 2B, I would definitely reconsider.

I do think it's a little ridiculous that you call Ackley a Mark Grace/Chase Utley type player, as if it's a guaranteed thing, and then turn around and act like taking Matzek is just maniacally risky.

[TiredofLosing20]

Drafting for need is idiotic. Take the best player available, regardless of position.

If you have two guys you rate pretty much equally, then need can be a tie-breaker.

Completely agree!!!!

[Lucky Jim]

Drafting for need is idiotic. Take the best player available, regardless of position.

If you have two guys you rate pretty much equally, then need can be a tie-breaker.

Seriously, JTrea's collected works are just about the most through instruction manual for how to run a losing organization I've ever stumbled across. I'm almost shocked he wasn't hired by the O's FO sometime in the 2000s.

[JTrea81]

Drafting for need is idiotic. Take the best player available, regardless of position.

If you have two guys you rate pretty much equally, then need can be a tie-breaker.

But eventually you wind up with a stockpile of pitchers and no position players which is exactly where we are now...

And you can argue that's a great place to be, but not if we keep refusing to trade any of our stockpile for hitting.

You can't hoard pitching and ignore the hitting, and that's exactly what the Orioles are doing and have been doing with few exceptions...

[PaulBako]

Drafting for need is idiotic. Take the best player available, regardless of position.

If you have two guys you rate pretty much equally, then need can be a tie-breaker.

Yeah. I agree with that. You should to take the best player available regardless of position.

Like Yardbird13 says:

YOU DONT DRAFT FOR NEED!!!!

GAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

[bigbird]

Why do you have such an axe to grind these days? You already posted a thread listing every transaction the Orioles did in 2008, which speaks for itself. Obviously you don't need to be told what he did and didn't do in that regard.

Separate from that, the minor league system and international scouting and development have been shored up. We've plainly made inroads in Japan, and beefed up Domincan operations. We brought in a manager and pitching coach from other organizations who did a tremendous job at Bowie this year.

I'm not saying these things to defend MacPhail. I think only time will tell whether his deliberate, patient approach pays dividends, or whether he has lost key opportunities that he should have pursued more aggressively. I'm just saying that sometimes the most important moves aren't that dramatic and don't always show immediate and obvious dividends. And sometimes, you just have to be patient rather than doing something dramatic just to show you are doing something.

Because we've not doing anything to upgrade the talent in this system and get better. We're going on the cheap and putting more money in PGA's pocket. That's why.

[Mackus]

But eventually you wind up with a stockpile of pitchers and no position players which is exactly where we are now...

And you can argue that's a great place to be, but not if we keep refusing to trade any of our stockpile for hitting.

You can't hoard pitching and ignore the hitting, and that's exactly what the Orioles are doing and have been doing with few exceptions...

The draft isn't the place to be assessing what you have in as strengths and weaknesses in your organization.

Trading for closer to ready guys is a place where need is important, but it is nothing but a tie-breaker when it comes to the draft.

Placing a high importance on organizational need in the draft is an absolute great way to end up with a mediocre farm system. Is that what you want?

[bigbird]

Yeah, I'm not sure either. However, 2 draft picks will work well also.

Just like they did with BJ Ryan....

[Frobby]

I agree with all of this. TAM was able to do what they did in large part because of the assets available to the FO (ML and MiL). They did a solid job, caught some breaks along the way and made the World Series 3 years into solid management.

BAL may have more money to spend (debatable, given the current economic state but not worth even discussing since none of us knows), but had decidedly less in the ML/MiL bank. I don't think there is any evidence that BAL is "afraid" to trade MiL talent.

Good post. I think it's obvious we have a lot of depth in minor league pitching, but it's still hard to trade from it because (1) the major league pitching is so poor, and (2) it's so hard to predict which of the highly-touted pitchers will be the ones who pan out. When we get to the point where we have three very solid young guys in the major league rotation, then I think the Orioles will have a lot of lattitude to wheel and deal. Until then AM will just keep building inventory.

Can anyone tell me - what pitchers did Friedman trade away? I don't follow the Rays closely enough to know (other than Zambrano for Kazmir).

[Stotle]

He's a first baseman, something we need desperately, even more than pitching.

We haven't been able to find a LT solution since 1998.

Well, if you're drafting for 1B you'd likely get below-AVG power (for 1B) and fringe-plus-plus-hitting. Above-average speed. If Ackely doesn't hit his ceiling, and say tops out as plus-hitting, you're using a top 5 pick for between 15-20 HR and a .300ish average.

I understand the pick a lot more if you work him out at 2B or if you have reason to believe he can return to the OF. But if your plan is 1B, look elsewhere.

[Mackus]

Just like they did with BJ Ryan....

What a great, logical argument to make.

NOT!

Some picks work out. Some don't. Saying you don't want picks solely and basing that on some of the ones that haven't worked out is very clearly and obviously inept logic.

The value of draft picks is relatively known. If we get more offered in trade than that value for a pending FA, pull the trigger. If not, take the picks. Its really not even a remotely difficult concept.

[bigbird]

Ever since we let his "General Manager" of the century slip away from us, that is all he does is bash the present regime. It really gets old.

Maybe when the Savior actually makes us better I'll get behind him.