Cubs trade DeRosa to Indians; Does this mean Pie for Olson back on??

[Roll Tide]

Sorry to do this to you again, but Johnny said "moves to improve the club" not "sign big names".

I think this is indicative of the commotion here lately. Posters aren't taking the time to read each other's words carefully and then we all get in a tizzy. There is so much generalization going on, not you in this instance Lucky Jim, that I barely can keep track of who is on what side, let alone any nuances.

Surely we will never know the impact of "Evil Mark" because he is now one of the bad guys. But there was pretty heavy speculation that he would have likley increased ticket sales in year 1 by something like 400,000-500,000 tickets. I wont waste my time looking back at all the Tex post to find where it was said.

@ Jim ...surely you agree that for every game the Orioles play with 5000 fans (I know the team will claim 10-15 thousand. The thay have lost money that they cant get ever recover. Once the game has been played that days revenue is lost.

Improving this team & doing so like there is some urgency would go along way for the fans.

Honestly I believe the Orioles have already blown it on a Roberts trade. They should have dealt him last season when they had a chance. The fact that there seems to be little or no market for him is really sad. The offers coming from teams like the Cubs are sad also. Our Cubs posters remind us about the 1 year rental thing.

[Fairfax Bird]

Tex-steria

Post Tex-matic Stress Disorder (PTexSD)

I'm off my meds today, it's pretty bad.

[jcroemer]

Honestly I believe the Orioles have already blown it on a Roberts trade. They should have dealt him last season when they had a chance. The fact that there seems to be little or no market for him is really sad. The offers coming from teams like the Cubs are sad also. Our Cubs posters remind us about the 1 year rental thing.

The only scenario in which I could see the O's getting fair value is if he is dealt to a perennial winner that can sign him to an extension. I wonder who he's hoping for?

[Lucky Jim]

Surely we will never know the impact of "Evil Mark" because he is now one of the bad guys. But there was pretty heavy speculation that he would have likley increased ticket sales in year 1 by something like 400,000-500,000 tickets. I wont waste my time looking back at all the Tex post to find where it was said.

@ Jim ...surely you agree that for every game the Orioles play with 5000 fans (I know the team will claim 10-15 thousand. The thay have lost money that they cant get ever recover. Once the game has been played that days revenue is lost.

Improving this team & doing so like there is some urgency would go along way for the fans.

Honestly I believe the Orioles have already blown it on a Roberts trade. They should have dealt him last season when they had a chance. The fact that there seems to be little or no market for him is really sad. The offers coming from teams like the Cubs are sad also. Our Cubs posters remind us about the 1 year rental thing.

I respect Frobby a great deal. But I'm not going to take his posts on here over actual market analysis. Enthusiasm dies quickly when a team is losing.

[Roll Tide]

You didn't do anything to me. Also, you're off-point.

His quote:

He said "substantial move" and offered as an example the signing of Sheets, Dunn, Tex or Burnett".

He then dowplayed the signing of Izturis.

Now, we know that the signing of Izturis did improve the club. So, obviously it's not just a "better club" that he thinks will bring in fans.

And he's asking for a "substantial move" of a single FA. Now, to me, that smacks of "marquee names."

Further, I addressed the actual wins-added by those FA signings, and made my point that, based on the slight improvement in performance, no attendance increase would occur.

So, in effect, I was on point. He was wrong. And you are too.

Hah! I'm just giving you a hard time.

But, seriously, I read his post carefully. And I responded to it directly. It appears I read it more carefully than you did.

You certainly have a right to your opinion but it doesn't make you right!

No one here can be sure what the immediate value you bringing Tex home would have had on attendance, Jersey sales etc etc. To measure by the difference in a win or 2 is clearly short sighted IMO.

I dont believe Izturis was any great addition. Its really PISS POOR that the Orioles were so desperate that they added another mediocre bat to our lineup. No matter how good his glove/arm is While Castro's defense wasn't great ...it wasn't bad either.

Finally we are competing with the Yankees & Red Sox.... Yankees add Tex,Burnett & Sabathia ...Orioles add Freel,Hendrickson, & Izturis.

I aint drinking the FLIPPIN KOOL AID JIM....Maybe should should drink less!!!

[Fairfax Bird]

You certainly have a right to your opinion but it doesn't make you right!

No one here can be sure what the immediate value you bringing Tex home would have had on attendance, Jersey sales etc etc. To measure by the difference in a win or 2 is clearly short sighted IMO.

I dont believe Izturis was any great addition. Its really PISS POOR that the Orioles were so desperate that they added another mediocre bat to our lineup.

They did not add Itzuris for his bat. He is one of the best fielding SSs in the league and he was BETTER at the plate then the garbage we ran out there last year.

[Hank Scorpio]

You certainly have a right to your opinion but it doesn't make you right!

No one here can be sure what the immediate value you bringing Tex home would have had on attendance, Jersey sales etc etc. To measure by the difference in a win or 2 is clearly short sighted IMO.

I dont believe Izturis was any great addition. Its really PISS POOR that the Orioles were so desperate that they added another mediocre bat to our lineup.

Trembley and MacPhail have repeatedly stressed their desire to shore up the infield defense.

Ignoring the defensive aspect of the Izturis signing is suspect.

[Lucky Jim]

You certainly have a right to your opinion but it doesn't make you right!

No one here can be sure what the immediate value you bringing Tex home would have had on attendance, Jersey sales etc etc. To measure by the difference in a win or 2 is clearly short sighted IMO.

I dont believe Izturis was any great addition. Its really PISS POOR that the Orioles were so desperate that they added another mediocre bat to our lineup.

No. It doesn't. Which is why I said "hah! I'm just giving you a hard time."

No one can be sure of anything, Johnny. I will say that I'm basing my comments off of numbers, evidence and studies. What are you basing your theories off of? A hunch? That's fine. But it's not the strongest refutation.

[Roll Tide]

Trembley and MacPhail have repeatedly stressed their desire to shore up the infield defense.

Ignoring the defensive aspect of the Izturis signing is suspect.

And at the same time ...shore up the pitching with Hendrickson & who were the other hot names ????? Redding

The Orioles are serious about 1 thing & its "PENNY PINCHING"

[Shopay]

Bigbird... it is apparent what your contact thinks about MacPhail.... what about the rest of the FO?

What inquiring minds want to know is if BB's contact received a demotion, whether actually or constructively, when AM came on board? j/k BB.

[Lucky Jim]

You certainly have a right to your opinion but it doesn't make you right!

No one here can be sure what the immediate value you bringing Tex home would have had on attendance, Jersey sales etc etc. To measure by the difference in a win or 2 is clearly short sighted IMO.

I dont believe Izturis was any great addition. Its really PISS POOR that the Orioles were so desperate that they added another mediocre bat to our lineup. No matter how good his glove/arm is While Castro's defense wasn't great ...it wasn't bad either.

Finally we are competing with the Yankees & Red Sox.... Yankees add Tex,Burnett & Sabathia ...Orioles add Freel,Hendrickson, & Izturis.

I aint drinking the FLIPPIN KOOL AID JIM....Maybe should should drink less!!!

More of this? Kind of silly, no? It's amazing how those who think objectively, analyze dispassionately and write clearly are lumped together as the "Kool Aid Drinkers" while the legions of folks who do none of that, but are somehow immune to the effects of this "brainwashing."

Tell me, who among the posters on this board would be most likely to swept up into a doomsday cult.* Is it the people arguing on my side? Or is it the people who feel it necessary to use that third exclamation point, just to drive their point home?

Frankly, I don't like the "Kool-Aid" reference much at all, seeing as it's based on the Jonestown Massacre, and the forced suicide of a lot of women and children. But if you're going to use it, maybe you should use it more accurately. I.e., take a good look in the mirror.

[bigbird]

Yeah...Like Duq traded Maine for Benson when the team sucked, or like Beattie traded Batista for Grimsley when we sucked, or like we traded Fontonot for Sosa when we sucked.

Can't talk out of both sides of your mouth BB.

Batista?? really??? What do you mean by both sides of my mouth???

[amateurfan]

You didn't do anything to me. Also, you're off-point.

His quote:

He said "substantial move" and offered as an example the signing of Sheets, Dunn, Tex or Burnett".

He then dowplayed the signing of Izturis.

Now, we know that the signing of Izturis did improve the club. So, obviously it's not just a "better club" that he thinks will bring in fans.

And he's asking for a "substantial move" of a single FA. Now, to me, that smacks of "marquee names."

Further, I addressed the actual wins-added by those FA signings, and made my point that, based on the slight improvement in performance, no attendance increase would occur.

So, in effect, I was on point. He was wrong. And you are too.

Hah! I'm just giving you a hard time.

But, seriously, I read his post carefully. And I responded to it directly. It appears I read it more carefully than you did.

Ah, two different points - thank you. Nevertheless, because I have the utmost time admitting that I'm ever wrong, I think your analysis of the number of wins such signings he advocated for would bring is considerably off. I agree with you, which I think is your main point, that there are other ways to make a winning team, and that a winning team is what brings the fans in. Johnny's main point was to make moves that substantially improve the team. What he offered was one method - one you don't like, which is totally valid. So, yes, winning does improve attendance, which was his main point, but, there are multiple ways to win, and singing big name Free Agents alone does not bring sustained increases in attendance unless accompanied by winning.

Thanks, for helping me out above.

[bigbird]

Bigbird, are you seriously complaining that the Orioles aren't trading away their prospects?

I would trade a pitching prospect not named Arrieta, Tillman or Matsuz for say Ryan Shealy. No problem. The odds of more than 4 or 5 of out pitching prospects producing at an above average level is slim. Part of the prospect deal is being able to trade them for major league ready talent.

[bigbird]

I'm not sure why the questions marks....Denny Bautista...I've your implying he was never a good ML player, would that make it ok for us to trade Tillman for Timlin, as long as Tillman blew his arm out in April? I'm sure you're smarter than that BB.

You are saying you want a good GM but are complaining about AM trading prospects at this point in the process. That right there is totally contradicting statements/ideas.

Most scouts did not like Bautista's make up when he was here. Guess they were right.