Should Santander be traded this offseason?

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I say this a lot.  Whether a player should be traded depends almost entirely on what you can get in return.  Then the question is, what is a “good return?”   That’s a tougher question to answer.   Right now the team is more balanced between pitching and hitting than I would have thought when the year began.  The minor league system is still a bit thin on pitching.  So, I’d say a younger pitcher is the priority.

Yes, I agree that quality of return means something different to other people.  We have people on this board that completely overrate and overhype guys on this team and those people need a lot more to trade someone than someone who doesn’t overhype them.

But yea, no one is saying to trade them for dumps and get no value.  It’s idiotic to assume that’s what is being said and it doesn’t need to be qualified.

[Sports Guy]

25 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

When you say "Two of them should go; I don't care which two" and then you add on the "provided we get a good return that makes sense for us," disclaimer think it's pretty self explanatory that it's not an argument to trade for trade's sake.  

In other words we can trade Mullins OR Santander as long as the return for either makes sense because there's ~1 WAR that separates the value of the two and hopefully you're making that ~1 WAR up in the trade you just made. 

I don't think this is really complicated.  I'm not the smartest guy around but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. 

Well when your goal is to troll, it becomes very difficult.  You aren’t taking that into account.

The stance being taken is only being taken because I said it. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Sports Guy

[oriole]

If next year is the year we start counting wins and losses than it’s worth saying that the offense needs to improve. A full year of Rutschman and Henderson is a good step towards that but the idea of replacing any of the outfield or 1B seems like a good place to start if we’re making upgrades. It just has to make sense, which is a complete unknown at this point. 
 

Within context of the OP, I think Santander might have the highest trade value so if he could net a good controllable SP then you got to consider it. But he is far from a must move type of candidate. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, oriole said:

If next year is the year we start counting wins and losses than it’s worth saying that the offense needs to improve. A full year of Rutschman and Henderson is a good step towards that but the idea of replacing any of the outfield or 1B seems like a good place to start if we’re making upgrades. It just has to make sense, which is a complete unknown at this point. 
 

Within context of the OP, I think Santander might have the highest trade value so if he could net a good controllable SP then you got to consider it. But he is far from a must move type of candidate. 

 It irs not just the offense.  The COF defense needs to be better.  Hays is struggling out there and Santander doesn’t look good.

Stowers may or may not be an improvement. 

Cowser should be and will be up soon.

But as you start to get log jams, players can start to lose value due to inactivity.  Also, we have a guy like AS who has been healthy this year, something he hasn’t been in the past.  Is that a trend or a one off?  

Just lots of things to consider here.

[deward]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

The Orioles have a lot of OF options coming up, one of which should be available quickly next year.

The Orioles current CO defense isn’t that good.

We need starting pitching and the Os are not going to get into bidding wars and pay big money for pitching.  So, we need to trade for it imo.

So, once you take all of that into account, I would rather keep the young top prospects who cost nothing for a long time and trade some of the vets.  

There is also the idea of how much do you want to pay the vets as they get older, will they be worth, do you wait to long to move on from them, etc…Iike I said before, I would rather deal them a year too early than too late.

 

I don't see a lot of OF options coming up in 2023. Stowers and Cowser, unless I'm missing someone. Stowers may or may not be better than the current options, Cowser may or may not be ready early in 2023. There's obviously room for improvement from this year's squad, but there's also plenty of room to backslide. I'm not ready to trade two of those guys this offseason just based on the internal options.

If we aren't going to spend money on starting pitching, then what the heck is Elias talking about when he says the team will spend this offseason? Why does he insist that the Wall will attract free agent pitchers if he isn't going to try and sign any? Mullins is the only one of the players you mentioned who may net you an established starter, and he's also the most difficult to replace.

I don't want to deal anyone a year too early if it sets the overall process back. This rebuild has dragged on long enough.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, deward said:

I don't see a lot of OF options coming up in 2023. Stowers and Cowser, unless I'm missing someone. Stowers may or may not be better than the current options, Cowser may or may not be ready early in 2023. There's obviously room for improvement from this year's squad, but there's also plenty of room to backslide. I'm not ready to trade two of those guys this offseason just based on the internal options.

If we aren't going to spend money on starting pitching, then what the heck is Elias talking about when he says the team will spend this offseason? Why does he insist that the Wall will attract free agent pitchers if he isn't going to try and sign any? Mullins is the only one of the players you mentioned who may net you an established starter, and he's also the most difficult to replace.

I don't want to deal anyone a year too early if it sets the overall process back. This rebuild has dragged on long enough.

Cowser is going to be up in 2023.  I agree the when is tbd.

No reason anything should  be pushed back if you build the time properly, which I believe Elias will do.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Pickles said:

I'm not trying to be.

I honestly just think we look at this differently.

When I hear "We should trade two guys; I don't care which two" I don't hear a well thought out plan.  I don't hear "if it makes sense for us;" "if it makes us better;" I hear exactly what was said.

Sounds like a Pickles problem, then.  I mean, if SG put the "If it makes us better," or "if it makes sense for us" qualifiers on there, would you be more more understanding or no?

[Guest]

I think Hayes is a serious non-tender candidate, so I would not trade Santander with the probability that Hays will likely not be here next year via non-tender or shipped to Miami for DSL prospects. Cowser is knocking on the door and I wouldn't be surprised to see the team find a stop-gap upgrade corner outfielder until he arrives. Stowers is way to slow to play outfield and should be moved to first so we can move Mountcastle.

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by MDS29

[owknows]

The time is fast approaching where the biggest question to be answered when considering trading a Orioles staring player, is whether they will be standing in the way of high quality players coming off the conveyor belt.

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, MDS29 said:

I think Hayes is a serious non-tender candidate, so I would not trade Santander with the probability that Hays will likely not be here next year via non-tender or shipped to Miami for DSL prospects. Cowser is knocking on the door and I wouldn't be surprised to see the team find a stop-gap upgrade corner outfielder until he arrives. Stowers is way to slow to play outfield and should be moved to first so we can move Mountcastle.

 

There’s no chance Hays will be non-tendered IMO.  

[Pickles]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Sounds like a Pickles problem, then.  I mean, if SG put the "If it makes us better," or "if it makes sense for us" qualifiers on there, would you be more more understanding or no?

No.  We already understand he wants to make a trade that "makes sense" or "makes us better" iho.  That's not the objection.

The objection is that going into offseason taking the position we should trade 2/3s of our starting outfield makes that less likely.

Again, it's really not difficult to grasp.

[Moose Milligan]

21 minutes ago, Pickles said:

No.  We already understand he wants to make a trade that "makes sense" or "makes us better" iho.  That's not the objection.

The objection is that going into offseason taking the position we should trade 2/3s of our starting outfield makes that less likely.

Again, it's really not difficult to grasp.

Not for me!  Again, we should trade 2/3s of our starting outfield if it makes sense and the returns are good.

Thanks for playing.

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Not for me!  Again, we should trade 2/3s of our starting outfield if it makes sense and the returns are good.

Thanks for playing.

What’s funny is that Santander really shouldn’t be out there anymore.  Hays is a back up with fading defense  and Mountcastle doesn’t play the OF.

And it’s not like they wouldn’t be replaced.  We aren’t going to play with 1 OFer next year.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Sports Guy

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Not for me!  Again, we should trade 2/3s of our starting outfield if it makes sense and the returns are good.

Thanks for playing.

The idea was that we should trade two of Mountcastle, Hays, Mullins, or Santander and he didn’t care which two.   Sounds like trading just to trade to me.  

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What’s funny is that Santander really shouldn’t be out there anymore.  Hays is a back up with fading offense and Mountcastle doesn’t play the OF.

And it’s not like they wouldn’t be replaced.  We aren’t going to play with 1 OFer next year.

Exactly. I think Cowser steps up into an outfield spot next year at some point.  I can see trading Mullins IF THE RETURNS ARE GOOD AND MAKE SENSE but I also wouldn't mind holding onto him.  Mullins and Cowser are a good combination, the other spot can be addressed in free agency or via trade.  

But I agree, Santander, despite having a good arm shouldn't be out there and Hays is just terribly disappointing with the bat to the point that I don't think there's anything he can do on defense to make up for it.  Mountcastle would be terrible out there and it doesn't really matter because he's become adequate in the field at first base.