When do we start blaming the hitting coaches?

[Moose Milligan]

It's been a somewhat oft-debated topic on here for years and I wanted to be ahead of the game in case we're going to start blaming the hitting coaches here soon.  It seems logical that it'd be on the horizon.

Yes, whenever the offense performs poorly for extended stretches, it's an OH tradition to make a thread about the hitting coach (in this case coaches) and ponder how much of this is their fault vs. the lack of talent they've been given to work with.  

So what are we thinking about our two-headed hitting coach attack of Ryan Fuller and Matt Borgschulte?  How can their pupils be thwarted by a Detroit Tigers starter with a 5.00+ ERA?  Are they to blame for the bats being in an extended cold-slump at a crucial point in the season when we need them to produce runs?  Are they to blame for the regression of Mountcastle and Hays?  

 

[DrungoHazewood]

Yes, it's time to fire Terry Crowley.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yes, it's time to fire Terry Crowley.

Maybe we should bring him back.

[sportsfan8703]

What do you want him to do?  Moving the wall back hurt our RH hitters, and then they got exposed because they don’t have the patience/power to be big threats. So they’re getting gone after. 
 

Vavra was predicted to be a Util guy. Stowers we knew was going to be a steep learning curve. 
 

The difference between the starters and the hitters, is that a lot of the starters had already come up and went back down to AAA to work on things. The hitters are getting their first looks. 

[JR Oriole]

It is absolutely fair to blame the hitting coaches.  They have one job with one deliverable.  Our players are effectively being shut down each night by every opposing starting pitcher…..even ones who are terrible like the guy last night.  If a hitting coach can’t help players hit, then why have one?  Or two in our case?  Would not having a hitting coach at all have any sort of negative impact?  Hard to even say.

[Aristotelian]

I don't put much stock in hitting coaches. It's really about player evaluation and development, and these guys are who they are for the most part. You will notice Gunnar and Adley have done great right away. If we want a NYY type of lineup with elite pitch recognition one through nine, we need to draft and develop players with elite pitch recognition. We're headed in that direction but it's going to take a while. 

[Aristotelian]

12 minutes ago, JR Oriole said:

It is absolutely fair to blame the hitting coaches.  They have one job with one deliverable.  Our players are effectively being shut down each night by every opposing starting pitcher…..even ones who are terrible like the guy last night.  If a hitting coach can’t help players hit, then why have one?  Or two in our case?  Would not having a hitting coach at all have any sort of negative impact?  Hard to even say.

Since you are asking this question, perhaps it is not fair to blame the hitting coaches. 

[DrungoHazewood]

23 minutes ago, JR Oriole said:

It is absolutely fair to blame the hitting coaches.  They have one job with one deliverable. 

The deliverable is to help prepare a roster full of guys with a variety of strengths and weaknesses to face a bunch of talented Major League pitchers.

It's a mistake to think the deliverable is a great hitting MLB team.  Remember Leo Mazzone and the 2006-07 Orioles? The coaches help prepare the players and offer them advice.  They don't play the game.

It would be different if this was year two or three of consistent failure, and highly-rated prospects flaming out, and players trying to do things that are very different than what's made them successful in the past.  But this is a slump of a few months from a team of kids and castoffs who were expected to win 60 games.  This isn't a Royals and Cal Eldred situation.

[Frobby]

Last year, the O’s finished 14th in runs scored and 12th in OPS, and had a 91 OPS+.   This year, they’re 10th in runs scored (despite the changes to OPACY) and 9th in OPS, with a 95 OPS+.   So what exactly am I blaming the new hitting coaches for?   The offense is improved overall.  

Now obviously that’s an oversimplification.  There were some personnel changes from last year to this one, and certainly there are examples of individual players who haven’t done as well this year.  Is some of that on the coaches?  Maybe.  Who knows?

My feeling though is to wait another year before looking at it too hard.  Chris Holt didn’t work any miracles last year, but in his second year, he’s got a lot of success stories.  The hitting coaches should get a chance to learn from what worked and what didn’t this season and we’ll see how next year goes.  
 

[vab]

Don't forget how many of these guys haven't really made it through a full major league season before. I think they're dog-tired. 

[MCO'sFan]

Well, as a coach I tend not to blame coaches.  

I think that the coaching has probably been fine. Many players have thrived under Fuller's coaching in the minors and I am confident that he is "teaching and preaching" the same things. There is an adjustment (perhaps stubbornness) for the older players before they embrace a new approach. I think the wall has hurt some guys more-so than the coaching. Some of that you can quantify but some (mental/approach) you can't. 

[LA2]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

What do you want him to do?  Moving the wall back hurt our RH hitters, and then they got exposed because they don’t have the patience/power to be big threats. So they’re getting gone after. 
 

Vavra was predicted to be a Util guy. Stowers we knew was going to be a steep learning curve. 
 

The difference between the starters and the hitters, is that a lot of the starters had already come up and went back down to AAA to work on things. The hitters are getting their first looks. 

We've done very well at home this year. W/L record is what counts.

[RZNJ]

Hitting coaches can’t force hitters to listen or change.  I’m pretty confident in the organization wide hitting approach and philosophy.  Presumably, we have better hitters on the way so we can change the players and not the coaches.

[LA2]

12 minutes ago, vab said:

Don't forget how many of these guys haven't really made it through a full major league season before. I think they're dog-tired. 

And will be moreso in the coming weeks without a single day off. But there's more versatility on the bench now to rotate tired players out.

[eddie83]

The away offense has been slightly worse than at home. 
 

I see a team that lacks a really good RHH. Mateo, Urias, Hays are not identical players but they don’t get on base at a high clip. Mountcastle still has upside but plate discipline gets in the way.