2nd Catcher Upgrade Needed

[Sports Guy]

From 2012-2014, Hector Sanchez was the back up for Posey.  2012 was his best year.  He had a .8 WAR.  In 2013, it was .2 and in 2014 it was -.4.

The 2012 and 2014 Giants won the WS.

[forphase1]

3 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

2B will be answered in-house.  They aren’t going external for that.

I'm not so sure.  If we had a good inhouse option, they should have replaced Odor months ago.  Norby may be the 2nd baseman of the future, but not next year I don't think.  Our top infielders at this point are more on the SS/3rd side of the infield.  Westburg played 40 games at 2nd, but 90+ at ss/3rd last year.  I'm not sure he's solid enough at the position to pencil him in as a starter there.  Same for Vavra.  Ortiz played 26 games last year at 2nd, with 102 at SS.  From what I hear about his excellent glove, I'm not sure we want to move him off of SS.  I do think any of the internal options would be better than Odor, but I'm not sure that management views any of our currently ready or close to ready guys as being the answer for 2nd.  

[RZNJ]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The kind that throw.

Well, we have most of the bullpen returning with guys, so are we spending on someone who is just below Bautista's level but better than Tate?   We have a full compliment of bullpen pieces and we'll probably have Cano, Vallimont, Watson, Armbruester, and Denoyer sitting down at Norfolk.   In addition, Hall might be in the bullpen.

So we have a pool of Hall, Akin, Vespi, Hall, Kriehble, Baker, Tate, Bautista plus the guys at Norfolk.     We also have guys pushed out of the rotation in play, possibly Voth or Wells.    Seemed like a fair question.   No need to respond though.   I must have hurt your feelings (didn't know you had any) yesterday.

[forphase1]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

Well, we have most of the bullpen returning with guys, so are we spending on someone who is just below Bautista's level but better than Tate?   We have a full compliment of bullpen pieces and we'll probably have Cano, Vallimont, Watson, Armbruester, and Denoyer sitting down at Norfolk.   In addition, Hall might be in the bullpen.

So we have a pool of Hall, Akin, Vespi, Hall, Kriehble, Baker, Tate, Bautista plus the guys at Norfolk.     We also have guys pushed out of the rotation in play, possibly Voth or Wells.    Seemed like a fair question.   No need to respond though.   I must have hurt your feelings (didn't know you had any) yesterday.

Yeah, I'm not sure we do much as far as RP goes.  If we do sign a SP or two, then whoever gets replaced from the starting rotation could possible move into the bullpen, like Akin did.  Some of our starts from last year may do better with only once through the lineup anyway.  Either way I think we've enough pitchers to supplement the bullpen without really needing to add much here.

[Sports Guy]

You need another reliever.  I would rather trade Tate then rely on him to repeat his numbers but even if you bring him back, I would want another solid back end option.

I don’t want to go into next year assuming guys who have never been good before will do it again.  
 

I like the potential of those guys, as some of the stats say they should be pretty good but I want an insurance policy.  Besides, relievers are so important, so I’m all in on trying to get better out there.

[maybenxtyr]

2 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We need a RH bat. We just simply do. Here’s my thinking is that I’d rather have Contreras for $15-17 million than Mancini/JD Martinez type, because Contreras would allow Adley to not have as many days completely off. It’s workload management. Or like a RB 1A/ RB 1B in the NFL. Adley would add so much playing 20-25 games at 1B then Mountcastle. Especially considering Adley is a SH. 
 

I think it’s worth to pay Contreras the extra $5-7 million more than a Mancini/JD Martinez, because we get to maximize Adley’s offensive game. 
 

Are we trying to win the division or a WC spot?  Contreras allows us to maximize Adley. No other FA out there allows that. Plus it helps us versus LHP that we struggled against. 

Can you please name any team in baseball that has a backup catcher as the teams highest paid player? And...the best player on the team is the starting catcher?

[RZNJ]

25 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You need another reliever.  I would rather trade Tate then rely on him to repeat his numbers but even if you bring him back, I would want another solid back end option.

I don’t want to go into next year assuming guys who have never been good before will do it again.  
 

I like the potential of those guys, as some of the stats say they should be pretty good but I want an insurance policy.  Besides, relievers are so important, so I’m all in on trying to get better out there.

As with everything, it depends on the cost.   Are we talking about a Craig Kimbrel type of pitcher.  A veteran who was okay this year but dominant previously?

[Jagwar]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

They need 2-3 new everyday bats, at least one starter and one reliever.

Back Up C isn’t anywhere on the list of things that actually mean anything significant.

I think the O's do this (and I think they need 2 starters) and they aren't just fighting for a Wild Card spot. They're AL East contenders. 

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

As with everything, it depends on the cost.   Are we talking about a Craig Kimbrel type of pitcher.  A veteran who was okay this year but dominant previously?

That would depend on contract but an option like that is appealing imo.  
 

Would love to find an ODay like guy.  When we got ODay, he had a pretty good history of being good but was undervalued because he had some injury issues and was more under the radar.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I think the O's do this (and I think they need 2 starters) and they aren't just fighting for a Wild Card spot. They're AL East contenders. 

Well that’s the hope…and the point.

I am really coming around to the idea of adding Abreu.

[Jim'sKid26]

In 2022 who was the best backup catcher in baseball? Austin Barnes? He was worth 0.8 bWAR. Kyle Higashioka?  He was worth 0.6 bWAR. 

The team with the best catcher tandem might be the Braves. Travis d"Arnaud was worth 2.9 bWAR and William Contreras was worth 2.8 bWAR. 

Another good duo is Jansen and Kirk from Toronto, bWAR is 2.9 and 3.9 respectively, Kirk caught 78 games and DHed 51. 

Houston's BU catcher, Martin Maldonado = 0.2 bWAR

Cleveland's Austin Hedges = negative 0.4 bWAR

Seattle's, Curt Casali = 1.5 bWAR

Tampa's, Rene Pinto = negative 0.2 bWAR

St. Louis' Andrew Knitzer = 0.8 bWAR

Mets' Tomas Nido = 0.3 bWAR

Phillies' Garrett Stubbs= 0.9 bWAR

Padres' Jorge Alfaro = 0.7 bWAR

It appears to me that this years playoff teams went in several different directions with their BU catchers. Maybe the Braves have the best tandem with the Jays also in that conversation. But most teams get less than a win above replacement from their BU catchers.

[Jagwar]

31 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well that’s the hope…and the point.

I am really coming around to the idea of adding Abreu.

If Elias is as smart as I think he is, he knows very well the places in the lineup (and on the field) that are most glaring for an upgrade. He also knows that to upgrade those places, the necessary moves are going to surprise a lot of folks. 

[owknows]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

The kind that throw....

...strikes

[OriolesMagic83]

4 hours ago, forphase1 said:

Don't get me wrong.  I personally would move on from Hays, Mountcastle and Urias.  I'd sign/trade for a TOR pitcher, another solid SP, a masher for first, a solid 2nd basemen, and someone good on a short deal for ss/3rd, opposite wherever you play Gunnar.  I'm not sold on Mateo, I think that hot streak gave us all false hope. The bat just isn't good enough imo.

 

But that's what I'd do.   I don't think Elias makes that kind of sweeping changes or gives up on some of those guys. 

I think just about all of that could happen, but not just in the offseason.  I think that Hays and Mountcastle might last till the 2023 trade deadline or even 2023 offseason.  2B is probably going to be filled in house.  Definitely need to add at least 1 #2/#3 type SP, whether thru free agency or trade.  Lyles or his equivalent is not going to do it. 

[NCRaven]

Westburg (RH) should get plenty of outfield reps during fall instructs.  Norby, Ortiz, Westburg and Cowser could all be up by mid-season next year.  Meanwhile I dream on a Verlander signing.  3 years, $105 million.