Dodgers Actively Looking for CF to Replace Bellinger…..Would you trade Mullins?

[owknows]

1 minute ago, HakunaSakata said:

Really? This isn't defending Trevor Bauer? You clearly had an agenda and were trying to stir the pot when you posted this, or you wouldn't have included this paragraph. And this is just a thought, but maybe the benchmark for morality should be just a bit higher than whether or not something is illegal. And with that, like @Can_of_corn I am also officially out on this topic. 

 

You're dishonestly representing his position.

The distinction he drew was not legality. It was whether the participants were consenting adults.

 

[banks703]

20 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Really? This isn't defending Trevor Bauer? You clearly had an agenda and were trying to stir the pot when you posted this, or you wouldn't have included this paragraph. And this is just a thought, but maybe the benchmark for morality should be just a bit higher than whether or not something is illegal. And with that, like @Can_of_corn I am also officially out on this topic. 

I know that it might be an unpopular opinion but I don't think that any of us should form an opinion of someone and what they do behind closed doors. Two consenting adults should be allowed to conduct themselves in private however they choose. Bauer being a high profile athlete, should probably be smarter in his private life than what he has demonstrated but I personally feel that he is entitled to be whoever he wants to be and do whatever he wants to do so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others to do the same for themselves. If he has crossed that line from frowned upon sexual activity to legitimate assault then I don't think there is a place for him in such a public role (not just with the O's but in his profession/celebrity in general). As far as I have read he has done nothing illegal or that wasn't agreed upon by the women with whom he engaged in the activities. To me, the notes read like they agreed to a thing, he might have gotten caught up in the moment during said activities and/or due to his profile, he is being chastised. If that's the truth, personally I do not think that is fair. 

No pot stirring. I prefaced the post include that if the guy went beyond what he and someone else agreed upon and it resulted in harm to that other person, then there is no place for him as a public figure. I thought that I made my position on that pretty clear. 

 

There are only two people in the world who actually know what happened. Just as much as I am advocating for keeping an open mind about the situation given the determined facts, I can also concede that there is a manner in which we as people should reasonably behave. However, I do not have authority to tell someone else how to conduct themselves, or when, or where, etc. I'm simply offering perspective that none of us really know what happened between those two people but those two people.

 

Additionally, that due to the the evidence presented in court preceding (that Bauer and the woman mutually consented to engage in the activities in question), the court determined that there was insufficient evidence for him to even be criminally tried in the case. That is a fact.

 

You are more than welcome to disagree with the idea and I don't blame you. Every person is entitled to their opinions and feelings. But please don't intentionally misuse my words to validate yourself and attempt to misrepresent my position. 

[Roll Tide]

Bauer is suspended all of 2023 and will not have pitched in 2+ years. Not interested and I don’t think we need to be! Just collect 2-4 prospects for Mullins and move on. 

[banks703]

His suspension was determined in April of this year to be 324 games, the equivalent of two seasons and was handed down by Manfred prior to the determination of the courts to not criminally try him for the incidents. 

 

Additionally, he had served 99 games on admin leave while MLB navigated the situation (this was after Urias of the Dodgers accepted a 20 game suspension for domestic abuse). 

 

Bauer is appealing the remaining 162 games of his suspension. A decision was not expected before the new year. 

 

All of this while new evidence came to light of the situation. 

 

Removing the personal feelings of whether or not what we feel he did or didn't do, if it was acceptable behavior or not.. purely from a tactical position of how to improve the club... Bauer and May for Mullins with LA eating all of the money owed to Bauer makes the Orioles instantly a contender. 

 

I'm sorry that the idea may upset folks. That is not the intent and as I have stated multiple times to this point, if he crossed a line beyond what he and another adult consented to, then he should pay for his actions. Period. 

 

Matt Harvey was suspended and there were those of us up in arms over him re-signing with the O's this year. 

[owknows]

2 minutes ago, banks703 said:

His suspension was determined in April of this year to be 324 games, the equivalent of two seasons and was handed down by Manfred prior to the determination of the courts to not criminally try him for the incidents. 

 

Additionally, he had served 99 games on admin leave while MLB navigated the situation (this was after Urias of the Dodgers accepted a 20 game suspension for domestic abuse). 

 

Bauer is appealing the remaining 162 games of his suspension. A decision was not expected before the new year. 

 

All of this while new evidence came to light of the situation. 

 

Removing the personal feelings of whether or not what we feel he did or didn't do, if it was acceptable behavior or not.. purely from a tactical position of how to improve the club... Bauer and May for Mullins with LA eating all of the money owed to Bauer makes the Orioles instantly a contender. 

 

I'm sorry that the idea may upset folks. That is not the intent and as I have stated multiple times to this point, if he crossed a line beyond what he and another adult consented to, then he should pay for his actions. Period. 

 

Matt Harvey was suspended and there were those of us up in arms over him re-signing with the O's this year. 

You have nothing to apologize for.

[banks703]

26 minutes ago, owknows said:

You have nothing to apologize for.

I appreciate that. I enjoy the collaboration and the perspective that everyone brings to the board. The difference of opinions and thought is what make a message board enjoyable.  
 

To this Bauer topic; I read earlier (at gym, will have dig up link/source) that his suspension is expected to be at least be reduced for ‘time served’ via arbiter and that both the Jays and Rays have strong interest in Bauer. The Jays adding a talent like Bauer probably puts them over the top, obviously depending on whether he performs. 
 

It’s an unpopular thought for sure but given the history with Harvey and the team’s inability to improve the rotation thus far this off-season, I really think it’s an idea to consider. 

 

[SilverRocket]

1 hour ago, owknows said:

You have Hays who plays a decent enough CF. 

This is the part I really don't agree with. He was fine in CF a couple years ago, but he's lost speed since then and wasn't good defensively in the corner OF last year.

There are some options in the pipeline with Cowser being closest, but nobody is immediately ready. If you trade Mullins, you're punting on 2023 unless Cowser comes through faster than expected.

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, banks703 said:

I appreciate that. I enjoy the collaboration and the perspective that everyone brings to the board. The difference of opinions and thought is what make a message board enjoyable.  
 

To this Bauer topic; I read earlier (at gym, will have dig up link/source) that his suspension is expected to be at least be reduced for ‘time served’ via arbiter and that both the Jays and Rays have strong interest in Bauer. The Jays adding a talent like Bauer probably puts them over the top, obviously depending on whether he performs. 
 

It’s an unpopular thought for sure but given the history with Harvey and the team’s inability to improve the rotation thus far this off-season, I really think it’s an idea to consider. 

 

He denies hitting her face and genitals. You wonder if it’s a money grab by the woman. There have been a few things that have went in his favor. I don’t know what to believe and it’s a crappy situation. Did she have someone kick her ass after he was with her or self inflict the injuries. The reports and hospital stuff is at odds also. It’s a bad situation for MR Bauer but I wouldn’t want him here either. In certain situations in our society your guilty until you prove your innocence 

[owknows]

2 minutes ago, banks703 said:

I appreciate that. I enjoy the collaboration and the perspective that everyone brings to the board. The difference of opinions and thought is what make a message board enjoyable.  
 

To this Bauer topic; I read earlier (at gym, will have dig up link/source) that his suspension is expected to be at least be reduced for ‘time served’ via arbiter and that both the Jays and Rays have strong interest in Bauer. The Jays adding a talent like Bauer probably puts them over the top, obviously depending on whether he performs. 
 

It’s an unpopular thought for sure but given the history with Harvey and the team’s inability to improve the rotation thus far this off-season, I really think it’s an idea to consider. 

 

Bauer would be a good talent add to be sure.

As much as we hate to discuss it, it really does come down to the events he is accused of.

As we have learned time and time again, there are wrongful accusations leveled for personal gain. And this happens quite often. We've seen it play out in a very public proceeding against Johnny Depp.

Accusations were leveled. They were believed by default as has been the tendency in this world that seems more concerned with posing than justice. And in the end they turned out to be false. Ultimately you have to make some judgment based on the facts available to you.

I'd suggest that a woman who testifies that she was subjected to a sexual encounter against her will, then some weeks later seeks out the same man, goes to his bedchamber, and 2 days later says she was again subjected to sex against her will, has an issue with credibility.

The LA District Attorney concluded likewise, declining to bring charges... as did the Judge who initially issued a temporary restraining order, and then revoked it declaring that false testimony was provided.

Sports leagues, corporations, public figures, media organizations are placed under great pressure and overtly manipulated by activists who are more interested in politics than truth. As such, they occasionally over-react, or act wrongly in their haste to appear to be doing the right thing, before they even know what that is.

They sometimes ruin lives in the process.

If no further information came to light in this case, and I were a baseball GM... I would add him to my roster if I could.

 

[banks703]

6 minutes ago, owknows said:

Bauer would be a good talent add to be sure.

As much as we hate to discuss it, it really does come down to the events he is accused of.

As we have learned time and time again, there are wrongful accusations leveled for personal gain. And this happens quite often. We've seen it play out in a very public proceeding against Johnny Depp.

Accusations were leveled. They were believed by default as has been the tendency in this world that seems more concerned with posing than justice. And in the end they turned out to be false. Ultimately you have to make some judgment based on the facts available to you.

I'd suggest that a woman who testifies that she was subjected to a sexual encounter against her will, then some weeks later seeks out the same man, goes to his bedchamber, and 2 days later says she was again subjected to sex against her will, has an issue with credibility.

The LA District Attorney concluded likewise, declining to bring charges... as did the Judge who initially issued a temporary restraining order, and then revoked it declaring that false testimony was provided.

Sports leagues, corporations, public figures, media organizations are placed under great pressure and overtly manipulated by activists who are more interested in politics than truth. As such, they occasionally over-react, or act wrongly in their haste to appear to be doing the right thing, before they even know what that is.

They sometimes ruin lives in the process.

If no further information came to light in this case, and I were a baseball GM... I would add him to my roster if I could.

 

This is precisely where I am on this topic. 
 

I have three sisters, nieces, a mother and endless female friends and coworkers of whom I care for deeply and am protective. 
 

I am squarely in the camp that every accusation should be taken serious and vetted but that every accusation should not be accepted by default with judgement passing. Bauer could be a vile human who we don’t want anywhere near any of our family, regardless of gender. But the facts have been determined in an open court that the person who brought all of this information to light, resulting in his suspension, essentially falsified claims against him. This is why charges were dropped and criminal proceedings halted. 
 

Major League Baseball should have followed but appears to have made an example of Bauer. 
 

Whether we like him is irrelevant in my opinion. If a court of law determined that he was not legally in the wrong and no new evidence has been presented to contradict or alter their determination, he should be allowed to continue earning his living. It’s rumored that he will recoup some of the salary withheld from him. We shall see.  
 

Again, if the dude is a scum bag then I want no part of him as a public figure regardless of team. But the only thing that has been proven is that to some, he has questionable sexual desires and preferences that get very close to a line that I personally would not be comfortable balancing. 

The more that I think about this, the more that I think it makes sense for the Orioles to pursue this and quite honestly given the ‘controversy’ of re-signing Harvey, I’m not sure that they don’t explore it. 

 

 

[Aristotelian]

5 hours ago, wildcard said:

The answer for me is no.   The O's do not a player to replace Mullins without creating a hole at CF.

We also have a gigantic hole in our starting rotation. Maybe two or three holes. That being said I would much rather trade Hays, Urias, and prospects.

[Aristotelian]

3 hours ago, owknows said:

 

If no further information came to light in this case, and I were a baseball GM... I would add him to my roster if I could.

 

He does have two other accusers, FYI. 

[Pat Kelly]

There are plenty of other better options than TB, who IMO should be banned for life from MLB.   I don’t expect there will be much if any interest in him.  

[Tony-OH]

7 hours ago, SemperFi said:

Hi Tony, yes I agree from a WAR assessment but something else to consider is did Manny push them further into the playoffs and as a result generate more money.  I cannot speak to baseball but when I was involved in hockey budgeted were built to break even until you get into the playoffs and that was where you made money-the longer the run the more you made.  I think baseball is  different but then in hockey all the sharing splits changed and it was imperative to get home ice advantage as more home ice meant more tix sales (i think somewhat split, but concessions, and parking were not-can't remember tv).  Anyway something else to consider, love the the Hangout and the way it is run!! 

Thanks.

When it comes to "winning" trades they are always much more nuanced than just WAR, but it's the easiest to use. 

I was just commenting to the poster than Kremer has already provided the Orioles more WAR, but you are right in that the Dodgers could still call it a success from their perspective. Besides, Kremer is probably an extra guy with the Dodgers when you look at that rotation.

[Frobby]

6 hours ago, SilverRocket said:

I just do not understand why so many people here are open to trading Mullins, especially with Nimmo off the board. Hays is not a CF anymore and the chances are low that Cowser can fill in immediately. For a bunch of fans that are unhappy with question marks in the rotation, this should be worse.

Yeah, I think we’ll wait until at least the July trade deadline to consider any Mullins trade.  It becomes more tenable if Cowser is acing AAA and looks able to handle CF well.  Most likely, it will be next offseason before we look at it seriously.