Any interest in Trevor Bauer if he's released?

[RZNJ]

I had to google FFS.  LOL

[Jim'sKid26]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

What if he is actually innocent though?

There is no crime for 2 consenting adults to have weird fetishes.

I think you and I both know that his innocence is immaterial to the PR hit any team will take for signing him. I, personally, couldn't care less what he does in his personal life. But a lot of other people do.

The issue I am making is that he would have to be perceived as contrite and regretful for what happened for a "second chance" explanation for the signing to hold water. He is neither. In fact, he's defiant. Right or wrong, the "Court of Public Opinion," has found him guilty. He was also suspended by MLB thus he was found to have violated the domestic violence policy of the MLB. 

[Jim'sKid26]

50 minutes ago, Number5 said:

He's actually not in a position to show contrition, is he?  He hasn't been acquitted, the DA simply doesn't have enough evidence to try him.  Any admission on his part could cost him his freedom.

Having said that, the Orioles should stay far, far away, IMO.  If the Dodgers consider this guy to be a PR hot potato, the Orioles certainly aren't in a position to deal with it.

I'm no lawyer. Perhaps @Frobby can chime in. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, HakunaSakata said:

Once again, you're wrong. It's about the public perception of the incidents and potentially signing him and that has  absolutely nothing to do with legality. 

I don’t care about the public perception angle. That’s not what I’m talking about.

The public is made up of idiots. That’s irrelevant to my point.

If he’s innocent and didn’t do anything beyond consent, then there is nothing legally that should be held against him.

Thats what I’m saying. The public will make up their own minds and you can decide whether that’s enough to sign him or not but talking strictly about the legal side of things, if all the evidence says he’s innocent, that absolutely matters.

Right now, there are people who think he raped and beat those women. If it is proven he didn’t, that changes public perception, at least for some.

[ScGO's]

Again, how would his contract work if he is released and then signed since he has the player option and there is also a buyout. If he is traded for instead, how would those clauses work?

If he is league min and we aren't on the hook for the 2024 option, I'd be all over this.

 

[owknows]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

FFS.  

I didn’t deny your “research”. Just saying it’s dumb.  Of course, I know you think you are Mr Morality (which is a crock of sh!t), so you don’t do anything that Wikipedia says is illegal.

 

The law and morality are quite different things.

The law often being quite contrary to moral behavior.

[HakunaSakata]

3 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

I think you and I both know that his innocence is immaterial to the PR hit any team will take for signing him. I, personally, couldn't care less what he does in his personal life. But a lot of other people do.

The issue I am making is that he would have to be perceived as contrite and regretful for what happened for a "second chance" explanation for the signing to hold water. He is neither. In fact, he's defiant. Right or wrong, the "Court of Public Opinion," has found him guilty. He was also suspended by MLB thus he was found to have violated the domestic violence policy of the MLB. 

For what it's worth, as it is written, Bauer did violate MLB's Domestic Abuse policy. See the bolded part of the below excerpt. Did the punishment fit the crime? That's up for debate, but there's absolutely no doubt that he violated the policy based on the facts that came out about the case. 

"Sexual assault refers to a range of behaviors, including a completed nonconsensual sex act, an attempted nonconsensual sex act, and/or nonconsensual sexual contact. Lack of consent is inferred when a person uses force, harassment, threat of force, threat of adverse personnel or disciplinary action, or other coercion, or when the victim is asleep, incapacitated, unconscious or legally incapable of consent."

http://content.mlb.com/documents/2/9/2/296982292/Major_League_Player_Joint_DV_SA_CA_Policy_English_2018.pdf

[HakunaSakata]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t care about the public perception angle. That’s not what I’m talking about.

The public is made up of idiots. That’s irrelevant to my point.

If he’s innocent and didn’t do anything beyond consent, then there is nothing legally that should be held against him.

Thats what I’m saying. The public will make up their own minds and you can decide whether that’s enough to sign him or not but talking strictly about the legal side of things, if all the evidence says he’s innocent, that absolutely matters.

Right now, there are people who think he raped and beat those women. If it is proven he didn’t, that changes public perception, at least for some.

You might not care about public perception, but that's all that matters and all that is relevant to this conversation. That and his future performance on the field. This shouldn't be a discussion about Trevor Bauer's right to be employed again,  it should be a discussion about whether or not the Oriole's should sign him. Those are two completely different topics. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by HakunaSakata

[Too Tall]

As much as I'd like a possible top of the rotation pitcher, NO on a lot of levels. But we did have two years of Matt Harvey and he isn't exactly an MLB Poster Boy.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Just now, Too Tall said:

As much as I'd like a possible top of the rotation pitcher, NO on a lot of levels. But we did have two years of Matt Harvey and he isn't exactly an MLB Poster Boy.

Bauer hasn't pitched since the sticky substances ban and his recent career success is supposedly largely owed to whatever he was putting on the ball. Add in the PR nightmare associated with Bauer and it's a risk only a team desperate to win is going to take on him. 

[Jammer7]

1 minute ago, HakunaSakata said:

For what it's worth, as it is written, Bauer did violate MLB's Domestic Abuse policy. See the bolded part of the below excerpt. Did the punishment fit the crime? That's up for debate, but there's absolutely no doubt that he violated the policy based on the facts that came out about the case. 

"Sexual assault refers to a range of behaviors, including a completed nonconsensual sex act, an attempted nonconsensual sex act, and/or nonconsensual sexual contact. Lack of consent is inferred when a person uses force, harassment, threat of force, threat of adverse personnel or disciplinary action, or other coercion, or when the victim is asleep, incapacitated, unconscious or legally incapable of consent."

http://content.mlb.com/documents/2/9/2/296982292/Major_League_Player_Joint_DV_SA_CA_Policy_English_2018.pdf

The act(s) was alleged. These are difficult to prove actual or implied consent. Her word against his. Very difficult cases to prosecute. On the flip side, there are always cases of extortion too.

Legality vs. morality, two different things. No one should want an actual rapist around. But there is a lot more kinky fetishized people out there than many might think. 

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

You might not care about public perception, but that's all that matters and all that is relevant to this conversation. That and his future performance on the field. This shouldn't be a discussion about Trevor Bauer's right to be employed again,  it should be a discussion about whether or not the Oriole's should sign him. Those are two completely different topics. 

But where you are wrong is if it’s proven he did nothing wrong, public perception can and likely would change. 

[Sports Guy]

16 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

For what it's worth, as it is written, Bauer did violate MLB's Domestic Abuse policy. See the bolded part of the below excerpt. Did the punishment fit the crime? That's up for debate, but there's absolutely no doubt that he violated the policy based on the facts that came out about the case. 

"Sexual assault refers to a range of behaviors, including a completed nonconsensual sex act, an attempted nonconsensual sex act, and/or nonconsensual sexual contact. Lack of consent is inferred when a person uses force, harassment, threat of force, threat of adverse personnel or disciplinary action, or other coercion, or when the victim is asleep, incapacitated, unconscious or legally incapable of consent."

http://content.mlb.com/documents/2/9/2/296982292/Major_League_Player_Joint_DV_SA_CA_Policy_English_2018.pdf

There is no evidence that he violated this, correct? Did he admit he did this?

[SteveA]

31 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Some case law in the past 20 years has removed some of the more ancient laws from the books, making them unconstitutional. I do not know the Bauer case, intimately, but from what I know, if there was consent from adults involved, not a crime. 

Obviously that's the conclusion law enforcement came to, at least based on the evidence they had available, they didn't feel they had enough to prove it.

But I don't know about that blanket statement at the end of your sentence.   I'm not an expert on the law.   But I believe he has admitted to beating her about the face, but said she had given consent for roughness/pain.   Where is that line drawn?   If I tell you that I want to die and ask you to kill me, I believe you can still be convicted of murder or manslaughter or something if you honor my wishes.   If she gave consent for rough sex, does that mean that he can hit her until she has black eyes and a bruised face and that is not considered a crime?

Obviously, he wasn't charged, so maybe the answer to that question is yes.   Or maybe he wasn't charged because they just didn't have enough evidence to move foward.

[Aristotelian]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Lol.  Well that’s really dumb and nothing anyone cares about or abides by.

Its also illegal to go over the speed limit too.  

There are a lot obscure laws that are never enforced or don’t matter.

End of the day, I’m guessing Bauer did nothing wrong. He took things to a point where the girls wanted him to take it And then they decided to try and extort some money from him. 
 

The texts definitely look bad for her. The bruises look bad for him. We don't know anything about the other two cases. (Not sure what you mean about all of them extorting money as neither of the others have filed anything). MLB apparently found just cause in their investigation. Arbitrator ruled that they overstepped in the punishment but not in the finding of just cause. If I had to guess he is an extremely savvy individual who knows exactly how much he can legally get away with. I agree there is reasonable doubt and should be presumed innocent but it is way premature to declare he did nothing wrong and the women are all going after him for money.

It is possible that they consented in his mind but not in theirs. It is possible that they are coming forward for money *and* that he is guilty of something.

If they are lying, they should absolutely be prosecuted and sued for defamation because that sort of thing undermines real victims when they try to come forward. But then again they should have the same presumption of innocence as Bauer. 

I personally just want nothing to do with it.