What is the real reason for our off season?

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I think he is buying into the possibilities of the 2023 season but not at the cost of impacting future seasons. 

I’m so sick of this reasoning.  It’s literally stupid and completely illogical. I’m tired of hearing fans say it, Elias say it, etc…

The lack of understanding of future payroll, team building and the need to start winning is unreal to me. If this is the way he is thinking, he isn’t the right man to be a GM. He may be the right guy to build a system and a foundation but he’s not the right guy to finish the job.

 

[Big Al]

Elias planted a garden. He has nurtured and watered it. Now he’s waiting for the yield before he runs to the grocery store. 

[eddie83]

16 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

I have seen no tangible evidence whatsoever that would lead me to believe that this is the case.

Why add any depth pieces to the roster at all? He clearly is trying to build better bench/depth. 
 

The question is how much those players will impact the team and whether or not the rest of team plays well enough for it to matter. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Big Al said:

Elias planted a garden. He has nurtured and watered it. Now he’s waiting for the yield before he runs to the grocery store. 

But if I didn't plant any pitcher plants and I know I need five pitcher plants for this recipe I'm going to be cooking I might as well head to the store.

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m so sick of this reasoning.  It’s literally stupid and completely illogical. I’m tired of hearing fans say it, Elias say it, etc…

The lack of understanding of future payroll, team building and the need to start winning is unreal to me. If this is the way he is thinking, he isn’t the right man to be a GM. He may be the right guy to build a system and a foundation but he’s not the right guy to finish the job.

 

Why else is he not being more aggressive? Doesn’t like the current FA crop? Believes in the system? Cheap owner? All of the above?

 

Him talking about the division odds and his opinion on FA pitchers are telling us something. 

[Yardball85]

5 minutes ago, Big Al said:

Elias planted a garden. He has nurtured and watered it. Now he’s waiting for the yield before he runs to the grocery store. 

But if his goal is to cook a delicious dinner (i.e. make the playoffs), he cannot make the meal entirely from the garden.  He will need to pick things up from the grocery store to complete the meal. 

[Yardball85]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

But if I didn't plant any pitcher plants and I know I need five pitcher plants for this recipe I'm going to be cooking I might as well head to the store.

Yup.  

[LA2]

27 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

If we get Archer, even on a Harvey deal, I will pee on the Warehouse.  

In sighing relief or putrid scorn?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, LA2 said:

In sighing relief or putrid scorn?

Putrid Scorn was the name of my old Noise Rock band back in High School.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Why else is he not being more aggressive? Doesn’t like the current FA crop? Believes in the system? Cheap owner? All of the above?

 

Him talking about the division odds and his opinion on FA pitchers are telling us something. 

As I have been saying, ownership is cheap and he is going to follow the Astros FA model.

That model means he likely won’t be giving out long term FA deals but the cheapness of ownership is even preventing 3 year deals and him taking on contracts in trade…all of which I believe he would do.

But this “don’t want to hurt future years” is all bs.

They have no salary on the books for the foreseeable future. No contract(s) are hurting them anytime soon. It’s a bogus, made up reason to get fans to buy into the tanking and now the cheapness of ownership.  That’s it. It’s just PR.

[btdart20]

If only there were a nice, neat, cause/effect box we could check off and move on...  I think it's risk aversion in general.  But as always, there's likely much more to the story. 

Not the least of which is our fan expectations.  We tend to follow the "animal spirits" or zeitgeist of the moment.  We're fearful when the trend is fearful.  We're excited when the trend is excitement.  We're jaded when the trend is jaded.  It's human nature to default to the norm (i.e. there's a psychological pull in our brains to be lazy and instinctual).  It's much harder to transcend and engage the logical side despite out instincts telling us we understand.  Social media and chat boards feed that beast of the brain...

[eddie83]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

As I have been saying, ownership is cheap and he is going to follow the Astros FA model.

That model means he likely won’t be giving out long term FA deals but the cheapness of ownership is even preventing 3 year deals and him taking on contracts in trade…all of which I believe he would do.

But this “don’t want to hurt future years” is all bs.

They have no salary on the books for the foreseeable future. No contract(s) are hurting them anytime soon. It’s a bogus, made up reason to get fans to buy into the tanking and now the cheapness of ownership.  That’s it. It’s just PR.

Of course the money part is PR. No reason they can’t afford to do more. The thing is we don’t know what Elias knows. If he botches a FA pitcher is that money going to be available again a year later? There is no reason with all the young position players and with the possibility of the arb players being dealt or leaving in 2/3 years they can’t afford multiple FA pitchers. 
 

I don’t think the lack of trades of prospects is PR. I think he is being deliberate in terms of how handles that. A big part of the future will be about who he trades and who he doesn’t. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Of course the money part is PR. No reason they can’t afford to do more. The thing is we don’t know what Elias knows. If he botches a FA pitcher is that money going to be available again a year later? There is no reason with all the young position players and with the possibility of the arb players being dealt or leaving in 2/3 years they can’t afford multiple FA pitchers. 
 

I don’t think the lack of trades of prospects is PR. I think he is being deliberate in terms of how handles that. A big part of the future will be about who he trades and who he doesn’t. 

No, the PR is that they tell people it’s not hurt the future or something like that.

They are lying to us. It’s a complete fabrication of things.

Im actually ok with the payroll this year (and knowing they likely add a little more).  It’s how they are spending it and they won’t spend it more long term because of ownership.

As I said in another thread, the only acceptable reason is selling the team. That’s it. I would gladly punt an offseason to get rid of this family. 

[jrobb21613]

Angelos is not going to spend millions of dollars on long term contracts on the top tier guys and I can’t say I blame him many of those contracts if not all were ludicrous. 
 

As far as the mid tier FA while certainly more reasonable many we’re still multi year deals and still quite expensive. I believe Elias believes in our guys and believes he can get similar production from guys already on the roster or on the way and at a fraction of the cost. 
 

I would be curious to hear Sig’s take on the Gibson, Frazier and minor league signings. Is there something him and his team see that leads them to believe we can get better production out of those guys.

Edited December 29, 2022 by jrobb21613

[Yardball85]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No, the PR is that they tell people it’s not hurt the future or something like that.

They are lying to us. It’s a complete fabrication of things.

Im actually ok with the payroll this year (and knowing they likely add a little more).  It’s how they are spending it and they won’t spend it more long term because of ownership.

As I said in another thread, the only acceptable reason is selling the team. That’s it. I would gladly punt an offseason to get rid of this family. 

Punt an offseason to punt the Angelos family to another dimension.  I like the sound of that.