Bowden claims Os have been aggressive

[RarityFlaherty]

4 minutes ago, Number5 said:

NFL salary cap and revenue sharing rules make this comparison apples and oranges.

Even with the salary cap, how many big name free agents have the ravens brought in? Not that many. The ravens mostly build through the draft. 

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

This I agree with, but we really haven’t seen it play out yet. If Frazier is awful and guys like Westburg are ready, but we keep playing Frazier like we did with Odor last year, then I’ll be upset with the rest of you. It just feels silly to get bent out of shape because of what we have done in free agency so far. It still seems very likely that we see most of the kids who are ready play this year. 

They didn’t give Frazier 8M to sit on the bench.  He is definitely playing.

[RarityFlaherty]

12 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

Bottom line is that no meaningful improvements have been made.

The problem with this excuse is that the pitching has to come from somewhere and he refuses to draft high ceiling pitchers.

I wouldn’t call it an excuse as much advice for the sake of everyone here’s health. If you expect big free agent signings, you’re probably going to be disappointed. But yeah, we’d all love to see them bring in some high upside pitching. I’m just not going to expect it and be pleasantly surprised if they do. 

[interloper]

Yeah "active" =/= "aggressive". I believe they were very active based on the reports. I just don't know if they were aggressive. 

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, oriole said:

There aren’t really that many holes to fill on the roster but yet for each one he has gone in the direction of financial conservatism. The only difference this year is that he is spending a little in free agency rather than the waiver wire. This tells me he is very conscious of the budget and has tried to delegate by spreading the money out to multiple okay at best options rather than one solid option. 
 

My understanding is that Elias was told that when the team becomes competitive, then the team will spend. They’re not spending and the team should be competitive. Elias is notoriously tight lipped but yet he publicly eluded to participating in the market. All signs point to ownership changed their mind rather than a misinterpretation by Elias. 

As an analyst by trade, I tend to agree with you though I'm not ready to go full on board because of Elias risk aversion that we've so far. I do think Elias did not get a budget he was expecting and is now trying to piece together a roster with said budget. 

We'll know for sure once spring training starts. If he has not added any high priced players in trades, then yes, I think it's fair to conclude he's under ownership driven budgetary limitations.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

Even with the salary cap, how many big name free agents have the ravens brought in? Not that many. The ravens mostly build through the draft. 

The Ravens spend their money in retaining their own. That hasn’t always been the smart move but they spend a lot. 

[spiritof66]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I call bs on this but it’s what he is reporting.

https://theathletic.com/4056659/2023/01/04/mlb-front-offices-offseason-moves/?source=user_shared_article

Orioles — a veteran starting pitcher

The Orioles have signed pitchers Kyle Gibson and Mychal Givens and improved their veteran position-player depth with the acquisitions of second baseman Adam Frazier, catcher James McCann and first baseman/outfielder Ryan O’Hearn. Orioles fans are probably disappointed the team didn’t land a bigger-name starting pitcher, but it wasn’t because of a lack of effort. Baltimore’s front office was aggressive in trying to sign second- and third-tier starting pitchers in free agency (the pool of starters coveted most after Jacob deGrom, Justin Verlander and Carlos Rodón). The Orioles have a strong farm system they could dip into if they find an appealing, blockbuster-type trade, but their “big-splash moves” are probably a year away, which makes sense as it gives their young players further opportunity to develop and prove themselves this season.

What does Bowden mean by "aggressive in trying sign" quality starters who are free agents? What was the effort by the Orioles that Bowden seems to find commendable? Did the Orioles increase any of their offers to compete with those from other teams? Did they offer any of the guys they were pursuing a contract for more than two years? It rings hollow to say the team is "probably a year away" from acquiring serious talent via free agent signings or trades. Elias said he would try to bring in real talent for 2023 during this off-season, we're told he has tried hard to accomplish that, and so far he's failed. 

Elias has (so far as I know) never successfully pursued and signed a free agent sought by multiple teams and has never traded valuable ML players or prospects for proven talent. He created the expectation that he would do that during this off-season, and so far he's failed while spending $20 to $25 million on 2023 newcomers. We have a GM who's not shown he's capable of closing deals to build out a playoff-contending team, or ownership that won't allow him to commit the resources needed to do that, or both. If nothing else happens this off-season, how can that not be deflating to Oriole fans?

 

[Too Tall]

Aggressive as a descriptor is like sophisticated, very subjective in interpretation. I've said before and I'll say again, I think the driving force behind this off season is the state of the ownership. Some will say well the money is there - they could spend it. Yes, and if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

Again in my opinion until this ownership mess gets resolved or the Orioles are sold to much deeper and stabler pockets, I for one just go with the flow and hope our youngsters set the league on fire. I try not to get upset over that I can't control! I do hold out hope for a trade for pitching, but that takes at least two. I hope by mid-season we are adding because I think that will be the best time for an impact trade. I also hope by that time, we have a clearer picture where this ownership fiasco is going. Till then, my expectations remain tempered quite a bit. 

[RarityFlaherty]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

They didn’t give Frazier 8M to sit on the bench.  He is definitely playing.

We’ll see how much and where though. I think he’ll play a lot, but he’s mostly just an expensive insurance plan in case some guys aren’t ready. His ability to also play corner outfield gives us some flexibility to move him around if a guy like Westburg is ready to come up and play 2B. 

[RarityFlaherty]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The Ravens spend their money in retaining their own. That hasn’t always been the smart move but they spend a lot. 

Exactly. That’s much different than building a team through free agency. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Too Tall said:

Aggressive as a descriptor is like sophisticated, very subjective in interpretation. I've said before and I'll say again, I think the driving force behind this off season is the state of the ownership. Some will say well the money is there - they could spend it. Yes, and if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

Again in my opinion until this ownership mess gets resolved or the Orioles are sold to much deeper and stabler pockets, I for one just go with the flow and hope our youngsters set the league on fire. I try not to get upset over that I can't control! I do hold out hope for a trade for pitching, but that takes at least two. I hope by mid-season we are adding because I think that will be the best time for an impact trade. I also hope by that time, we have a clearer picture where this ownership fiasco is going. Till then, my expectations remain tempered quite a bit. 

I basically agree with all of this.  The problem is, they did spend that money. Ownership is allowing them to spend and, at least so far, it doesn’t appear they are mandating that they trade guys with increasing salaries either.

So, the payroll is going to be 70-80M it appears. That’s not a bad jump and considering how many cheap deals they have, you can argue that it’s a fine amount. 
 

But how they have spent it is terrible.

[Moshagge3]

1 hour ago, RarityFlaherty said:

I’m not sure why everyone thinks this is BS. We’ve heard that they were pursuing guys all off-season. It’s definitely possible that we lost out on players, even if we matched the highest offer. Unfortunately, Baltimore just isn’t a very appealing destination for some players. It might take us making the playoffs for free agents to start taking notice, but even then, some players still won’t want to come here.

Cleveland, St. Louis, and Detroit sign free agents on the regular and nobody is beating down the door to live in any of those cities. Cultural amenities, the food scene, whatever doesn't mean anything to these guys. They don't have weekends free during the season and they're on nutrition plans. The exception would be guys coming over from Japan, I can see why they would want to play in bigger, cosmopolitan cities.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

4 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

If you expect big free agent signings

I didn't, I simply expected them to bring in a couple of guys that actually qualified as clear improvements over what we already had, which did not happen.

My expectations were modest and measured, and wholly unreasonable apparently.

[interloper]

I'm pretty curious to see Elias' next big media scrum. He's usually pretty forthcoming as far as GM-speak goes, so I'm curious what he has to say about the efforts in free agency. 

[Sports Guy]

10 minutes ago, RarityFlaherty said:

We’ll see how much and where though. I think he’ll play a lot, but he’s mostly just an expensive insurance plan in case some guys aren’t ready. His ability to also play corner outfield gives us some flexibility to move him around if a guy like Westburg is ready to come up and play 2B. 

No he’s not. He is the starter. He’s not insurance. 
 

And he shouldn’t put an OFer glove on in 2023 unless we have a rash of injuries.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Sports Guy