Baseball America 2023 Top 100

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, MouncastleandMcCormick said:

This thread keeps getting pulled off topic.  Do we just need a new Frazier thread so people can let off some more steam?

Actually, Frazier is part of this topic though.

The Os have 8 prospects on this list..I would argue that it should be 9 or, Mayo replaces whoever.

That said, of the 8 who actually made the list, 7 are in AAA or higher. We can debate the word “ready” but Westburg has clearly shown enough to be here and, as of right now, he’s not going to be. Ortiz is ready defensively, which is seemingly the biggest reason you have Frazier here.

Frazier stops those things. So this list, which remember, means nothing is impacted by the guys on the ML roster in terms of getting your impact, high level talent up to the majors to gain experience and be part of a winning team.

When you bring in and keep vets and you pay them good salaries (especially when the team is so cheap), you are saying we are blocking them and not only that, you are saying we are ok with them being blocked.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Actually, Frazier is part of this topic though.

The Os have 8 prospects on this list..I would argue that it should be 9 or, Mayo replaces whoever.

That said, of the 8 who actually made the list, 7 are in AAA or higher. We can debate the word “ready” but Westburg has clearly shown enough to be here and, as of right now, he’s not going to be. Ortiz is ready defensively, which is seemingly the biggest reason you have Frazier here.

Frazier stops those things. So this list, which remember, means nothing is impacted by the guys on the ML roster in terms of getting your impact, high level talent up to the majors to gain experience and be part of a winning team.

When you bring in and keep vets and you pay them good salaries (especially when the team is so cheap), you are saying we are blocking them and not only that, you are saying we are ok with them being blocked.

If the list is meaningless why in the world would you argue that we should have 9 on the list?   LOL

[MarCakes21]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

Actually, Frazier is part of this topic though.

The Os have 8 prospects on this list..I would argue that it should be 9 or, Mayo replaces whoever.

That said, of the 8 who actually made the list, 7 are in AAA or higher. We can debate the word “ready” but Westburg has clearly shown enough to be here and, as of right now, he’s not going to be. Ortiz is ready defensively, which is seemingly the biggest reason you have Frazier here.

Frazier stops those things. So this list, which remember, means nothing is impacted by the guys on the ML roster in terms of getting your impact, high level talent up to the majors to gain experience and be part of a winning team.

When you bring in and keep vets and you pay them good salaries (especially when the team is so cheap), you are saying we are blocking them and not only that, you are saying we are ok with them being blocked.

So I agree with all this and don't advocate the Frazier signing.  But....

Other than biting a year of Adley/Gunner's window, what's the risk of waiting one more year and having Cowser/Westburg/Ortiz/Norby all come up at the same time.  I assume they could regress in repeating a level, but it does buy you one more year with all of them on the back end.

Again, I'm not a fan of it, but I do see a potential justification behind it.  You can trade Frazier/Hays/Santander/Urias/Mateo at the deadline and plug and play these guys with no loss and don't lose the service time either.

[Moose Milligan]

24 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

Well argued. As I said, I don't necessarily know if it's the right move, I just don't think it's so clearly the wrong move. The front office, privy to far more information than we as fans are, believe that Frazier is worth the 1/$8m investment. Not to say they can't or don't make mistakes! But again, I assume they trust Frazier more as a veteran presence as opposed to relying on Urias/Vavra or Westburg in April/May. My best guess is Westburg duplicates or exceeds his 2022 output and pushes his way onto the team and regular at-bats in the infield by June, and Frazier jumps all over the place (2B/LF/RF), with he and/or Urias potentially traded at some point.

True, we won't know until it plays out.  But I'd rather see the guys play who could have a future with this club, not a guy like Frazier.  8 million for "veteran presence" is a bit much and I wasn't aware that Frazier had such a commanding clubhouse presence.  If I'm looking for "veteran presence" it's gotta be a guy who's been a part of a World Series team or two or at the very least has slugged Jose Bautista in the jaw.  

I'm hoping that you're right and that Frazier (and maybe Urias) is traded.  MLB had that silly promo campaign a few years ago, "Let The Kids Play," and it's time that the Orioles take that advice.

[Frobby]

19 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Actually, Frazier is part of this topic though.

The Os have 8 prospects on this list..I would argue that it should be 9 or, Mayo replaces whoever.

That said, of the 8 who actually made the list, 7 are in AAA or higher. We can debate the word “ready” but Westburg has clearly shown enough to be here and, as of right now, he’s not going to be. Ortiz is ready defensively, which is seemingly the biggest reason you have Frazier here.

Frazier stops those things. So this list, which remember, means nothing is impacted by the guys on the ML roster in terms of getting your impact, high level talent up to the majors to gain experience and be part of a winning team.

When you bring in and keep vets and you pay them good salaries (especially when the team is so cheap), you are saying we are blocking them and not only that, you are saying we are ok with them being blocked.

I’m not going to say that the high rankings of our middle infield MiL prospects is irrelevant to whether signing Frazier was a good move.   But the Frazier thing has been more than amply discussed in numerous threads.  It would be kind of nice to just stand back, on the day when BA puts eight of our prospects in its top 100 and three in the top 15, and enjoy that fact on its own merits for a few hours before returning to our regularly scheduled programming.  It’s particularly nice to see Ortiz, Westburg and Norby moving into the top 100 after being on the outside looking in previously.  That speaks well of our player development system and is exciting to me.  I also noted that Westburg was rated 55 for glove and 50 for arm, which is a slightly more positive take on his defense than I’ve read in some places this winter.  

[Aristotelian]

41 minutes ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

Well argued. As I said, I don't necessarily know if it's the right move, I just don't think it's so clearly the wrong move. The front office, privy to far more information than we as fans are, believe that Frazier is worth the 1/$8m investment. Not to say they can't or don't make mistakes! But again, I assume they trust Frazier more as a veteran presence as opposed to relying on Urias/Vavra or Westburg in April/May. My best guess is Westburg duplicates or exceeds his 2022 output and pushes his way onto the team and regular at-bats in the infield by June, and Frazier jumps all over the place (2B/LF/RF), with he and/or Urias potentially traded at some point.

Best I can say about Frazier is he gives us flexibility (plus a LH bat).  If Cowser has a bad year or someone gets injured we will be happy we had Frazier. I think Elias is looking at trading any of Hays, Santander, Mateo, and Urias, but the right offer hasn't come along (and/or he seems to like making moves at the deadline). Frazier gives us the flexibility to keep all these trade assets on the table.

Frazier makes it a near certainty that Westburg isn't on the opening day roster, and I could see why some would have a problem with that. However, there are still lots of pathways for Westburg/Cowser/Ortiz to make it sooner rather than later, they just kind of have to force their way up rather than having jobs handed to them. If it is August and Cowser/Westburg are mashing 1.000 in AAA, then it will really be time to get pissed.

[Sports Guy]

35 minutes ago, MarCakes21 said:

So I agree with all this and don't advocate the Frazier signing.  But....

Other than biting a year of Adley/Gunner's window, what's the risk of waiting one more year and having Cowser/Westburg/Ortiz/Norby all come up at the same time.  I assume they could regress in repeating a level, but it does buy you one more year with all of them on the back end.

Again, I'm not a fan of it, but I do see a potential justification behind it.  You can trade Frazier/Hays/Santander/Urias/Mateo at the deadline and plug and play these guys with no loss and don't lose the service time either.

You bring guys up when they are ready. You don’t need to bring guys up at the same time for some odd continuity reason or whatever. People have been using that argument for a while now.

”Maybe we should keep Adley down to work with Grayson”. People on here and in social media actually said that.

That’s so dumb. You dont hold back guys so that can all come up together as one group.

[truespectra]

15 hours ago, ThisIsBirdland said:

Let’s also not forget about the lower prospects/rule Vs/waiver claims that developed last year— Bautista, Perez, Baker, Watkins, Voth, Wells (before injured), Urias winning gold glove, and Mateo adding value when getting on base. Heck, Mullins became an all star when they had him swing full time from the left. This coaching staff at all levels finally knows how to develop players. They may not win the WS or have had high profile FA signings, but it’s refreshing. They are going to develop many of these prospects into major leaguers who contribute- some significantly.

Edited January 19, 2023 by truespectra

[emmett16]

59 minutes ago, MarCakes21 said:

So I agree with all this and don't advocate the Frazier signing.  But....

Other than biting a year of Adley/Gunner's window, what's the risk of waiting one more year and having Cowser/Westburg/Ortiz/Norby all come up at the same time.  I assume they could regress in repeating a level, but it does buy you one more year with all of them on the back end.

Again, I'm not a fan of it, but I do see a potential justification behind it.  You can trade Frazier/Hays/Santander/Urias/Mateo at the deadline and plug and play these guys with no loss and don't lose the service time either.

Injuries.  Having an inventory isn't a bad thing.  I don't like the Frazier move, but I don't think it's a head scratcher.  

[Sports Guy]

36 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Best I can say about Frazier is he gives us flexibility (plus a LH bat).  If Cowser has a bad year or someone gets injured we will be happy we had Frazier. I think Elias is looking at trading any of Hays, Santander, Mateo, and Urias, but the right offer hasn't come along (and/or he seems to like making moves at the deadline). Frazier gives us the flexibility to keep all these trade assets on the table.

Frazier makes it a near certainty that Westburg isn't on the opening day roster, and I could see why some would have a problem with that. However, there are still lots of pathways for Westburg/Cowser/Ortiz to make it sooner rather than later, they just kind of have to force their way up rather than having jobs handed to them. If it is August and Cowser/Westburg are mashing 1.000 in AAA, then it will really be time to get pissed.

I can’t think of any scenario where I will say “I’m happy Frazier is here”

[emmett16]

38 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Best I can say about Frazier is he gives us flexibility (plus a LH bat).  If Cowser has a bad year or someone gets injured we will be happy we had Frazier. I think Elias is looking at trading any of Hays, Santander, Mateo, and Urias, but the right offer hasn't come along (and/or he seems to like making moves at the deadline). Frazier gives us the flexibility to keep all these trade assets on the table.

Frazier makes it a near certainty that Westburg isn't on the opening day roster, and I could see why some would have a problem with that. However, there are still lots of pathways for Westburg/Cowser/Ortiz to make it sooner rather than later, they just kind of have to force their way up rather than having jobs handed to them. If it is August and Cowser/Westburg are mashing 1.000 in AAA, then it will really be time to get pissed.

I think that's the last piece of the Elias development plan.  Iron sharpens iron.  No complacency.  He wants the most competition at every point in the system all the way to cracking the lineup, and then staying in the lineup.  Frazier is the last hurdle for Ortiz and Westburg.  I imagine Westburg and Ortiz have been bustin' it just a tiny bit harder since the Frazier signing.  Just a guess. 

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I can’t think of any scenario where I will say “I’m happy Frazier is here”

I’m pretty sure there will be at least one game where I will momentarily think that.  

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I’m pretty sure there will be at least one game where I will momentarily think that.  

I’m talking in general

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m talking in general

Obviously.  

[emmett16]

Who do you think has a chance to make the top 100 next year? 

-Mayo?

-Basallo?

-Kjrestad?

-Povich?

-Beavers?

Those would be my front runners.  Think there are some sleepers left that have a shot with another year of improvement.