John Angelos/Mike Elias 1 hour interview 105.7 today

[LTO's]

30 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

On a message board where most folks overvalue "our" players this might take the take. Not. Even. Close. And to your rebuttal point, Milwaukee has made ZERO mention of shopping or trading Burnes and the only need they have is in the OF, and Santander isn't going to fill that hole. They already have a better or equal version of Santander at DH in Winker. And if they weren't comparable with O. Miller at 2B then thy wouldn't have traded K. Wong. 

Or maybe you are just vastly overestimating the value of what would be a glorified rental while also underrating Santander? Luis Castillo was traded for two top 100 prospects and a few others. Burnes is better but not by much and many considered that trade to be a gross overpay for the Mariners. Trade values for rentals have been steadily decreasing for a while. A team like the Brewers may also covet ML ready prospects as well.  Look, really NONE of these pitchers being discussed here have been said to have been shopped. It's just a speculation thread. But if you don't think the Brewers aren't going to at least heavily considering it, I'm not sure you know much about how they are run. 

Winker could be better than Santander next year. Or he could not hit anything hard like he did last year when he moved away from the most hitter friendly park in baseball and not even be close. I just disagree wholeheartedly with your and others' idea of what Santander is. We know he's been sought after by other teams in baseball. He just had his best offensive season with (most importantly) a much better BB rate than he's had previously. And nothing in his metrics suggests anything close to a significant regression. If anything, it suggests the opposite. I want him to be an Oriole next year because I believe he makes the team better. BUT if we do trade him, I want it to be for fair market value and not some reach. 

[LTO's]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If GRod and/or Hall put up his numbers in 2023, everyone here, including you, would be excited. 
 

You want to put the Os players on some pedestal and talk everyone else’s guys down. It’s pretty typical orange colored glass type stuff.  

The Orioles actually did have a pitching prospect put up a better year than Cabrera and is liked more in some projection models going forward. And yet I'm not sitting here saying that he's worth 3 years of a 4 WAR CF in line to make over 150 mil in FA. 

[One eyed Bird]

JA = the Apple and the Tree

[HakunaSakata]

1 hour ago, LTO's said:

Or maybe you are just vastly overestimating the value of what would be a glorified rental while also underrating Santander? Luis Castillo was traded for two top 100 prospects and a few others. Burnes is better but not by much and many considered that trade to be a gross overpay for the Mariners. Trade values for rentals have been steadily decreasing for a while. A team like the Brewers may also covet ML ready prospects as well.  Look, really NONE of these pitchers being discussed here have been said to have been shopped. It's just a speculation thread. But if you don't think the Brewers aren't going to at least heavily considering it, I'm not sure you know much about how they are run. 

Winker could be better than Santander next year. Or he could not hit anything hard like he did last year when he moved away from the most hitter friendly park in baseball and not even be close. I just disagree wholeheartedly with your and others' idea of what Santander is. We know he's been sought after by other teams in baseball. He just had his best offensive season with (most importantly) a much better BB rate than he's had previously. And nothing in his metrics suggests anything close to a significant regression. If anything, it suggests the opposite. I want him to be an Oriole next year because I believe he makes the team better. BUT if we do trade him, I want it to be for fair market value and not some reach. 

Corbin Burnes is under contract for two more years...that's not a rental. He's also two years younger than Luis Castillo. And you weren't suggesting trading prospects for him You were suggesting trading a 28 year old Rule Five DH only player (Santander), a 27 or 28 year old MI who basically had no value prior to last season (Urias or Mateo) and ONE high end prospect (Cowser). That's the type of offer where the other owner just hangs up the phone. It's THAT bad. 

On the Winker note, the Brewers literally just traded for him last month. I find it very hard to believe that they'd scrap their plans for him just to get the Babe Ruthian bat of Anthony Santander into their lineup. 

 

[LTO's]

13 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Corbin Burnes is under contract for two more years...that's not a rental. He's also two years younger than Luis Castillo. And you weren't suggesting trading prospects for him You were suggesting trading a 28 year old Rule Five DH only player (Santander), a 27 or 28 year old MI who basically had no value prior to last season (Urias or Mateo) and ONE high end prospect (Cowser). That's the type of offer where the other owner just hangs up the phone. It's THAT bad. 

On the Winker note, the Brewers literally just traded for him last month. I find it very hard to believe that they'd scrap their plans for him just to get the Babe Ruthian bat of Anthony Santander into their lineup. 

 

Let me be clear: When I said INF I meant one of the INF prospects (Westburg, Norby, Ortiz). I mentioned them after Cowser purposefully but should have been more clear. An established big league stop gap, a probable top 25-30 overall prospect like Cowser, another top 100 prospect, and one to two more top 30 org prospects is enough for Corbin. Age doesn’t factor into this at all really and I was operating under the assumption that the trade would be at this deadline or before next season. Which is implied in my OP when I said year and half and referenced the Castillo trade. Again, should have been more clear there.
 

But really, what is it with Santander? I really don’t get it. What is it in his stats/metrics that suggests to you a regression is imminent? I would love to hear it. Seems to me you mentioning he was rule five guy (??) and sarcastically referring to him as Ruthian suggests you have some irrational vendetta against him. 


 

[Sports Guy]

23 minutes ago, LTO's said:

Let me be clear: When I said INF I meant one of the INF prospects (Westburg, Norby, Ortiz). I mentioned them after Cowser purposefully but should have been more clear. An established big league stop gap, a probable top 25-30 overall prospect like Cowser, another top 100 prospect, and one to two more top 30 org prospects is enough for Corbin. Age doesn’t factor into this at all really and I was operating under the assumption that the trade would be at this deadline or before next season. Which is implied in my OP when I said year and half and referenced the Castillo trade. Again, should have been more clear there.
 

But really, what is it with Santander? I really don’t get it. What is it in his stats/metrics that suggests to you a regression is imminent? I would love to hear it. Seems to me you mentioning he was rule five guy (??) and sarcastically referring to him as Ruthian suggests you have some irrational vendetta against him. 


 

Poor OBP, declining OF defense  and zero reliability to stay healthy. 3 obvious and huge concerns.

If all he ends up being is a DH, that drops his value by itself.

[HakunaSakata]

36 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Poor OBP, declining OF defense  and zero reliability to stay healthy. 3 obvious and huge concerns.

If all he ends up being is a DH, that drops his value by itself.

@LTO's All of these plus his age. There aren't many legitimately good players who breakout at the age of 28. That's not to say it's impossible, but historically it certainly seems like its been the exception not the norm.

[Just Regular]

Picollo's Royals join Harris's Tigers as Clubs maybe selling 2023 Wins now.

 

[LTO's]

33 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

@LTO's All of these plus his age. There aren't many legitimately good players who breakout at the age of 28. That's not to say it's impossible, but historically it certainly seems like its been the exception not the norm.

The Orioles have him for 2 more years. The question is does he make the team better the next two years. He had very low BAPIP last year (well below league average), highest BB% of his career and hit the ball hard consistently. There's nothing in the batted ball profile that suggests any type of regression. His offensive output last year was firmly above average at 1B and DH.  The idea that we can rely on any of the prospects to immediately step in and match that production is foolish. 

[Since1984]

6 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

You have a roster issue if/when Cowser, Westburg and Ortiz force themselves up here (which should be now or very quickly)..Norby and Kjerstad are potentials as well. Mayo is a year away..Holliday perhaps the same.

Plus if you ever trade for or sign higher end talent at those positions.

So, between now and next offseason, you are going to have to trade several guys..and they should have already really.

The market may be dictating this. I’m sure ME has been active and is waiting to pull the strings when the value of return = value given (ish). The O’s are still in the early stages of competition and want to keep adding to the mix.

the 40 man roster will be completely different this time next year and the O’s need to make some trades.

Do you agree they will or will not?

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, Since1984 said:

The market may be dictating this. I’m sure ME has been active and is waiting to pull the strings when the value of return = value given (ish). The O’s are still in the early stages of competition and want to keep adding to the mix.

the 40 man roster will be completely different this time next year and the O’s need to make some trades.

Do you agree they will or will not?

If the market has changed you need to realize it and adjust your expectations.

I question if he's doing that.

If I go to the store expecting to pay the same price for eggs I did last January and I won't come off that stance I ain't eating any omelets.  I can go home without eggs and hope the price eventually goes down but I think we all know the days of really cheap eggs is over and the best we can hope for is less expensive eggs in the future.

[HOF19]

Some MLB Media people STILL connecting Wacha to the Orioles.....Are they bored and just need something to talk about or is there a ACTUAL interest between this player and the Orioles ?????

[Sports Guy]

21 minutes ago, Since1984 said:

The market may be dictating this. I’m sure ME has been active and is waiting to pull the strings when the value of return = value given (ish). The O’s are still in the early stages of competition and want to keep adding to the mix.

the 40 man roster will be completely different this time next year and the O’s need to make some trades.

Do you agree they will or will not?

I don’t know. There are currently a lot of guys on the 40 man that could get tomorrow and there will need to be guys added between now and then, so there will be a natural 25-30% turnover anyway.

Will ME make trades? I don’t know. I don’t think they will look to trade guys at the deadline, at least from the ML roster, ala last year..unless they aren’t playing well.

Could they look to move prospects for an upgrade?  Yea I could see that although ME has yet to show us he can or will do that. 
 

You say the market dictates it. Any thought that you change your thought process and adjust to what the market is giving you?

Heres the real problem…Elias doesn’t believe this team is ready yet. He obviously didn’t last year and hasn’t done anything this offseason to make you think he thinks it now.

It May happen because young guys really develop and excel but he is telling you he isn’t buying it yet and Angelos is telling you he isn’t either and even if he does buy it, he doesn’t care anyway.

So that’s the real issue here..belief in this team being able to legitimately compete for the playoffs. 

[sportsfan8703]

1 hour ago, Just Regular said:

Picollo's Royals join Harris's Tigers as Clubs maybe selling 2023 Wins now.

 

Starting to see the trade market heat up a little bit. Wacha seems to need a dance partner too. 

[sportsfan8703]

I’m thinking Wacha is holding out for 2/24, and our offer is only in the 1/10 range. Listening to JA, that deal might not even be on the table.