Do you want Wacha, and if so, what terms can you live with?

[Three Run Homer]

I think he would help the rotation and I don't think 2/24 is a ridiculous price tag.   If we don't like the 2 year commitment, then how about trading Urias or Mateo to the Mets for Carlos Carrasco, who is only signed for one more year?  

[DrinkinWithFermi]

Nah, I'm good. Just give the final rotation spot to Wells, Voth, or the TOR SP we trade for any day now ().

[RVAOsFan]

11 hours ago, Frobby said:

I’m actually surprised how many people have voted that they want Wacha, at least on some terms.   So far as many people have said they’d pay 2/$24 mm as have said they don’t want him on any terms.  

Would you prefer another FA starting pitcher or just go with what we have? If I had a crystal ball that told me all of our starters would stay healthy this year I would be fine standing pat but I think the chances of that are pretty slim.  If one starter goes down in ST we are thin if two go down then we are in trouble.  I think Wacha would provide an insurance policy at a price I think the O's should be able to afford and willing to pay.

[RVAOsFan]

15 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Just don’t feel he’s a good bet to come close to that and I may rather see Hall get those innings, even if it’s not immediately.

I hope as much as anyone Hall pitches quality innings for the Orioles this year but I don't think he did anything last year to make anyone think we should count on him.  If he pitches consistently like we have seen flashes of and hope he can be then it doesn't really matter who we sign he will push them out of the rotation.  I think we need another SP if for nothing else some depth.  If that is someone else, fine, but I think we should be able to afford Wacha and he has a chance to be the best option left.

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

I hope as much as anyone Hall pitches quality innings for the Orioles this year but I don't think he did anything last year to make anyone think we should count on him.  If he pitches consistently like we have seen flashes of and hope he can be then it doesn't really matter who we sign he will push them out of the rotation.  I think we need another SP if for nothing else some depth.  If that is someone else, fine, but I think we should be able to afford Wacha and he has a chance to be the best option left.

I don’t really disagree with what you are saying about Hall although I do think getting through the season healthy was important and I do think this organization can get him throwing more strikes.

My bigger issue is with Wacha. I said I didn’t want him although I suppose at some number,  I would be ok with his signing but I’m guessing that number isn’t realistic, so I just say no I don’t want him.

How much better will Wacha be than Wells or Voth?  

[LookinUp]

43 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

Would you prefer another FA starting pitcher or just go with what we have? If I had a crystal ball that told me all of our starters would stay healthy this year I would be fine standing pat but I think the chances of that are pretty slim.  If one starter goes down in ST we are thin if two go down then we are in trouble.  I think Wacha would provide an insurance policy at a price I think the O's should be able to afford and willing to pay.

This is always true, but I think for the O's the price point matters, and not just because Angelos owns the team. 

1. Wacha himself is likely to be one of those guys who goes down with injuries.

2. We do have 7 guys right now. Gibson, Rodriguez, Kremer, Bradish, Wells, Voth and Hall.

3. I think the O's might like a few AA/AAA arms more than we talk about here. Denoyer, Armbruester and Rom would be the first three. Behind them could be Povich (assuming development) and Young (assuming health). And that ignores Baumann, Cano and a couple of others.

Bottom line is I don't see the O's signing a guy for depth because I think they have some at a much cheaper cost. They might want Wacha because he's more talented, but that is an open question and I think a smart team is willing to only go so far on the price point with that question in mind.

Edited January 25, 2023 by LookinUp

[RVAOsFan]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t really disagree with what you are saying about Hall although I do think getting through the season healthy was important and I do think this organization can get him throwing more strikes.

My bigger issue is with Wacha. I said I didn’t want him although I suppose at some number,  I would be ok with his signing but I’m guessing that number isn’t realistic, so I just say no I don’t want him.

How much better will Wacha be than Wells or Voth?  

I don't think anyone can really answer that question with any certainty because neither of them has much of a track record as a successful starting pitcher.  Which is my concern with our rotation as a whole.  Some guys stepped up last year and pitched well but can we really count on that going forward? Maybe Wacha isn't the best option but there don't seem to be many other options out there.  

My whole point is if a guy or couple guys we are counting on don't pitch like they did last year or we have injuries I think this rotation gets very thin very fast.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

I don't think anyone can really answer that question with any certainty because neither of them has much of a track record as a successful starting pitcher.  Which is my concern with our rotation as a whole.  Some guys stepped up last year and pitched well but can we really count on that going forward? Maybe Wacha isn't the best option but there don't seem to be many other options out there.  

My whole point is if a guy or couple guys we are counting on don't pitch like they did last year or we have injuries I think this rotation gets very thin very fast.

I don’t disagree..otoh, the team is telling us they don’t plan on contending unless the young guys ascend and make us contend. They aren’t trying to build enough around those guys to win.  If that’s the case, I would rather roll with the young guys and see what they can do.

 

[RVAOsFan]

12 minutes ago, LookinUp said:

This is always true, but I think for the O's the price point matters, and not just because Angelos owns the team. 

1. Wacha himself is likely to be one of those guys who goes down with injuries.

2. We do have 7 guys right now. Gibson, Rodriguez, Hall, Bradish, Wells, Voth and Hall.

3. I think the O's might like a few AA/AAA arms more than we talk about here. Denoyer, Armbruester and Rom would be the first three. Behind them could be Povich (assuming development) and Young (assuming health). And that ignores Baumann, Cano and a couple of others.

Bottom line is I don't see the O's signing a guy for depth because I think they have some at a much cheaper cost. They might want Wacha because he's more talented, but that is an open question and I think a smart team is willing to only go so far on the price point with that question in mind.

I agree Wacha does have his own injury concerns and that is probably why he is still on the market.

You listed Hall twice, I assume you meant to put Watkins in there? Either way there isn't a whole lot of long term track record with these guys.  I look at adding Wacha as a solid middle to back end of the rotation pieces who pushes our current back end pieces into more depth.

I don't see how signing him makes us worse and at 1 or 2 years at a reasonable price point it shouldn't have much of a financial impact on the team.

[LookinUp]

2 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

I agree Wacha does have his own injury concerns and that is probably why he is still on the market.

You listed Hall twice, I assume you meant to put Watkins in there? Either way there isn't a whole lot of long term track record with these guys.  I look at adding Wacha as a solid middle to back end of the rotation pieces who pushes our current back end pieces into more depth.

I don't see how signing him makes us worse and at 1 or 2 years at a reasonable price point it shouldn't have much of a financial impact on the team.

I actually just edited it. Meant Kremer, of course. Watkins is definitely in that depth list though and I forgot him.

And I agree, signing him wouldn't be terrible. I just think it's all about his price point because there's real risk he's not healthy and/or doesn't perform.

[RVAOsFan]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t disagree..otoh, the team is telling us they don’t plan on contending unless the young guys ascend and make us contend. They aren’t trying to build enough around those guys to win.  If that’s the case, I would rather roll with the young guys and see what they can do.

 

But wouldn't signing Wacha be a move telling us they are trying to contend? I am all about rolling out the young guys and seeing what they can do but other than GRod I don't see much else lining up to contribute to our rotation this season (maybe Hall but who knows?) 

This team as built today is pretty much what we had most of the season last year but probably a little better with full season of Adley and Henderson.  If we went back to last season at the deadline and we traded away a couple of meaningless prospects and traded for a guy like Wacha to boost our rotation I think this places would have been very excited.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, RVAOsFan said:

But wouldn't signing Wacha be a move telling us they are trying to contend? I am all about rolling out the young guys and seeing what they can do but other than GRod I don't see much else lining up to contribute to our rotation this season (maybe Hall but who knows?) 

This team as built today is pretty much what we had most of the season last year but probably a little better with full season of Adley and Henderson.  If we went back to last season at the deadline and we traded away a couple of meaningless prospects and traded for a guy like Wacha to boost our rotation I think this places would have been very excited.

I don’t think Wacha comes close to moving the needle that much. 

[interloper]

I'm fine if it's a one-year contract. I'm also fine with just rolling with our guys, but I have a feeling before long we are going to be in a situation where we're saying, "dang, we could probably have used him right about now". Injuries and ineffectiveness are a thing. Last year alone we lost pitchers for extended time due to one reason or another (Means, Wells, Kremer, Zimmermann). 

That being said, it IS a little crowded on paper. In no particular order:
1. Gibson
2. Kremer
3. Bradish
4. Rodriguez
5. Wells/Voth

I think the easy answer is Wells moves to the bullpen, which is a move I'm fine with because he looked like a stud there and our 'pen would be insanely deep. Voth would have to find a spot there too as a long man. If we assume 13 pitchers, the bullpen could look like:

1. Voth
2. Wells
3. Bautista
4. Givens
5. Baker
6. Tate
7. Perez
8. Akin? Hall? 

I don't see much room for Politi barring injuries. Hall could get the AAA treatment and continue working as a SP down there until called upon. Hall might be the biggest argument against Wacha, but I think either way he's going to pitch a lot at the big league level in 2023. 

[interloper]

20 hours ago, Ripken said:

No.  There were good FA starter options earlier but John and Mike ignored them.

You have no way of knowing or proving that they were "ignored". I think it's much more likely these pitchers chose to accept other teams' deals. If you want to say we didn't offer enough money or years, that's a much more defensible position to take. 

[Sports Guy]

19 minutes ago, interloper said:

You have no way of knowing or proving that they were "ignored". I think it's much more likely these pitchers chose to accept other teams' deals. If you want to say we didn't offer enough money or years, that's a much more defensible position to take. 

If you keep losing and don’t put out offers for them to accept, that’s essentially the same as ignoring it…at the very least, it’s the exact same result.