Orioles Acquire LHP Cole Irvin from the A's for Darrel Hernaiz

[Sports Guy]

 

[OriolesMagic83]

Hard to criticize this move as the O's are getting a guy who will probably pitch ML innings this year although I think Elias has thinks of him more as a swingman.  I wouldn't take innings away from a guy like Wells or Bradish who could have a long term future as a starter with the O's.  Hernaiz was probably a guy who's going to top out in AAA and maybe get a cup of coffee in the bigs.

[Ripken]

We got more value than we gave up.  An average-ish, innings eating, lefty is never bad to have around and the prospect very likely had no future here.  So, it's a step and we can't be mad.  I still feel like we need several more steps though.

[52520Andrew]

I wouldn't completely count out Virbitsky who posted a respectable 9.3 SO/9 and 2.3 BB/9 in A+ while being about league average for age. Not sure about his stuff overall but he can make players miss at least at that level and can limit his walks which are both worth something. Also pitched 126.1 innings last year through A and A+ and has a big frame. You can definitely tell the Orioles have a type with their pitching prospects.

[TopGunnar]

What’s our rotation as of right now.

1. Grayson

2. Gibson

3. Kremer

4. Bradish

5. Irvin.

??

[yark14]

Good move.  We can always flip him at the deadline or during the offseason if he gets squeezed out of our rotation.  Good problem to have.

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because an "average" player puts up 2 WAR a season.  3.4 < 4.0.

Since you wanted to use rWAR as your argument.

I don't think it's picking nits.  I think calling this a "strong move" is overstating the move.  A strong move would have been adding an actual #1-#3 pitcher like he said he was going to do.

His ERA+ is solidly average (94/97). If that is below average it is only in the most technical sense. I also do not think WAR is an exact enough science that 0.3 WAR/year puts him in a lower tier of pitchers than "average".  He did put up +0.5 WAA last year, although he is slightly negative for his career. 

 

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because an "average" player puts up 2 WAR a season.  3.4 < 4.0.

Since you wanted to use rWAR as your argument.

I don't think it's picking nits.  I think calling this a "strong move" is overstating the move.  A strong move would have been adding an actual #1-#3 pitcher like he said he was going to do.

Irvin put up 0.5 WAA last year (very slightly negative for his career). 94 and 97 ERA+. If he is below average it is only in a technical sense. He is much closer to average than to replacement level. Calling it just "a move" is overly negative. I would go with solid move.

[Aristotelian]

Sorry for double quoting. The editor was acting weird there.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Spy Fox said:

I've already talked about how I like the move, but it's interesting this is the trade Elias went with. There were probably discussions, or at least the option of discussions, on trades with better prospects leaving the org and a better pitcher in return.

Choosing this one tells me he didn't like the trade price of other options and maybe prioritized holding on to our top 5 to 10 guys over getting a better pitcher. We'll see how it goes but I'm not sure that's the right call in our position.

I feel like he is still holding onto his main trade chips. If we are in contention at the trade deadline that could be when he makes more of an all in move. It's not the bold move a lot of us were hoping for, but I do like that it gives us the flexibility to go all in at the deadline or go the other way and retool depending on the scenario. 

[ThisIsBirdland]

Looking at some of his stats for the last two years, he really looks like the type of guy we would've ran out there for the 2012-2016 teams. H/9, K/9, BB/9, HR/9, WHIP, and K/BB all fall into ranges you would see from Tillman, Chen, Miguel Gonzales, Bud Norris, etc. They all generally had higher ERA+, I assume on account of the ballpark factors?

At a glance his numbers from his two years in Oakland match up very similarly to Chen's first two years in Baltimore (2012-2013). I'd be interested in how their stuff compares and if there could be a comp there for those who may know more.

I don't think he's dominant by any stretch, but I'm hopeful he can be a solid SP to a playoff rotation over the next four years.

[ThisIsBirdland]

17 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I feel like he is still holding onto his main trade chips. If we are in contention at the trade deadline that could be when he makes more of an all in move. It's not the bold move a lot of us were hoping for, but I do like that it gives us the flexibility to go all in at the deadline or go the other way and retool depending on the scenario. 

I don't think he's ever going to comfortably part with the top guys in the system until there are clearly established players on the ML team that would actually block those players he'd be looking at trading. For example, I think once Gunnar and whomever of Westburg/Norby/Ortiz/Mayo lock down two spots (and assuming Holliday is ascending), at that point he'll look to trade whoever hasn't earned regular playing time (but is hopefully still maintaining trade value by performing well in AAA). I think he's worried of trading the wrong guys and having whoever he's left with bust at the ML level, especially if it's in pursuit of a pitcher with minimal long-term team control.

[RarityFlaherty]

31 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I feel like he is still holding onto his main trade chips. If we are in contention at the trade deadline that could be when he makes more of an all in move. It's not the bold move a lot of us were hoping for, but I do like that it gives us the flexibility to go all in at the deadline or go the other way and retool depending on the scenario. 

It also let’s us get a better look at some of these prospects, to see what we have. I think it’s smarter to be patient and not start trading our big trade chips just yet. Hernaiz was definitely expendable, so I’m really happy with this trade. Ideally, by the trade deadline, Holliday has shown signs that he’s the future at SS and we can confidently trade from our depth at SS to improve our pitching again. 

[24fps]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I feel like he is still holding onto his main trade chips. If we are in contention at the trade deadline that could be when he makes more of an all in move. It's not the bold move a lot of us were hoping for, but I do like that it gives us the flexibility to go all in at the deadline or go the other way and retool depending on the scenario. 

(fanfare) "Presenting Your 2023 Baltimore Orioles - A Team That's Kept It's Options Open" (fanfare)

[Roll Tide]

8 hours ago, TopGunnar said:

What’s our rotation as of right now.

1. Grayson

2. Gibson

3. Kremer

4. Bradish

5. Irvin.

??

Add Wells or Voth as your 6th….Grayson is probably only good for 100 innings 

[Sports Guy]

27 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Add Wells or Voth as your 6th….Grayson is probably only good for 100 innings 

He threw over 80 innings last year. Unless he gets hurt this year, he is easily getting over 100 innings.

If he’s healthy, he gets closer to 150 than 100.