How Will Nick Hit in 2009?

[clapdiddy]

Fair enough. I am not nearly as enamored with him as you and the majority of others here seem to be. He is a very good but not great player. I think he would no doubt function quite sucessfully in the leadoff spot, but until Roberts goes will continue to hit in the two hole which also isn't a bad spot for him in a lineup. He just doesn't have the pop to hit in the heart of a lineup.

Actually, he's the #3 hitter.

[Old#5fan]

Yeah, but he's a gold glove caliber defender, you can't deny that.

In his and your dreams, along with about 80% of the OH as well! :laughlol:

I would bet my truck payment for the next 6 years that Markakis will never win a Gold Glove Award during this same time.

[Old#5fan]

Actually, he's the #3 hitter.

How can you say this? He was moved around like a ping pong ball by DT last year to the 2 and 3 spot. He doesn't drive in enough runs to bat third as he is too much of a walker, which is why he is much better suited to bat leadoff.

As John Wayne used to say, "its as simple as that."

[Frobby]

Fair enough. I am not nearly as enamored with him as you and the majority of others here seem to be. He is a very good but not great player. I think he would no doubt function quite sucessfully in the leadoff spot, but until Roberts goes will continue to hit in the two hole which also isn't a bad spot for him in a lineup. He just doesn't have the pop to hit in the heart of a lineup.

You could have said the same thing about a lot of 24-year old players, like Carl Yastrzemski or Stan Musial, neither of whom ever hit more than 20 HR until they were 27 even though they had been hitting for high average and hitting a lot of doubles in their early careers. So that's why I say we'll see whether anything happens that changes your opinion.

As to the idea of Nick hitting leadoff if BRob leaves, it's not too bad an idea. Nick's not a huge stolen base threat, but with a .400 OBP and close to 50 doubles, he'd work well as the leadoff guy. I also like him at no. 2 where he played last year, and he proved in 2007 that he can handle the no. 3 spot (112 RBI). I don't see him as a cleanup guy, but that's where Wieters eventually comes in, probably not in 2009, but eventually.

[Flosman]

How can you say this? He was moved around like a ping pong ball by DT last year to the 2 and 3 spot. He doesn't drive in enough runs to bat third as he is too much of a walker, which is why he is much better suited to bat leadoff.

As John Wayne used to say, "its as simple as that."

This is kind of like watching the scene in Jaws were the crew of the Orca (old guy) tries to catch the shark with a Rod and Reel. Old guy has no idea what he is chumming up . The one thing that makesme happy is Old Guyispretty much universally wrong in his predictions. I say Nick is a legit MVP type player this season, 330/415/600 35 hrs.

[Maverick2143]

You could have said the same thing about a lot of 24-year old players, like Carl Yastrzemski or Stan Musial, neither of whom ever hit more than 20 HR until they were 27 even though they had been hitting for high average and hitting a lot of doubles in their early careers. So that's why I say we'll see whether anything happens that changes your opinion.

As to the idea of Nick hitting leadoff if BRob leaves, it's not too bad an idea. Nick's not a huge stolen base threat, but with a .400 OBP and close to 50 doubles, he'd work well as the leadoff guy. I also like him at no. 2 where he played last year, and he proved in 2007 that he can handle the no. 3 spot (112 RBI). I don't see him as a cleanup guy, but that's where Wieters eventually comes in, probably not in 2009, but eventually.

I have been reading Bill James's Baseball Abstract off and on for the last month and I just read the top 10 Right Fielders last night. I was struck with how well their early careers compared to Nick's. If I think about it at lunch time, I'll grab my book and post specifics.

[Old#5fan]

This is kind of like watching the scene in Jaws were the crew of the Orca (old guy) tries to catch the shark with a Rod and Reel. Old guy has no idea what he is chumming up . The one thing that makesme happy is Old Guyispretty much universally wrong in his predictions. I say Nick is a legit MVP type player this season, 330/415/600 35 hrs.

I can take your ribbing but now you are going to get some from me. I will say that Markakis has about a 1/26 chance of even representing the Orioles in the All-Star game next season (same as any other player on the roster) and a below 1 % of ever and I mean EVER winning an MVP. That is the biggest joke I have ever read on this forum bar none.:laughlol: He hasn't even shown himself to be the best player on the Orioles roster yet and he's gonna jump to best in the AL? That would be a quantum leap bar none! You need a reality check Mister!:eektf:

[PaulFolk]

I can take your ribbing but now you are going to get some from me. I will say that Markakis has about a 1/26 chance of even representing the Orioles in the All-Star game next season (same as any other player on the roster) and a below 1 % of ever and I mean EVER winning an MVP. That is the biggest joke I have ever read on this forum bar none.:laughlol: He hasn't even shown himself to be the best player on the Orioles roster yet and he's gonna jump to best in the AL? That would be a quantum leap bar none! You need a reality check Mister!:eektf:

So Markakis has no better a chance of making the All-Star team than, say, Mark Hendrickson, Ryan Freel, or Gregg Zaun?

I...don't think you've thought this through.

[Frobby]

So Markakis has no better a chance of making the All-Star team than, say, Mark Hendrickson, Ryan Freel, or Gregg Zaun?

I...don't think you've thought this through.

Unless something very strange happens, I'd say Nick has about a 1/4 chance of representing the Orioles in the all star game, maybe more like 1/2.

As to MVP, until the Orioles are a good team there's no point even discussing it. By the time the O's are a good team (may we actually see that day!), there's a good chances Wieters will have surpassed him as an MVP candidate.

[Old#5fan]

So Markakis has no better a chance of making the All-Star team than, say, Mark Hendrickson, Ryan Freel, or Gregg Zaun?

I...don't think you've thought this through.

Yeah, thats right. Last year he couldn't even beat out George Sherrill. His odds are so low because there are a lot of more talented outfielders in the AL who get more votes.

[Frobby]

Yeah, thats right. Last year he couldn't even beat out George Sherrill. His odds are so low because there are a lot of more talented outfielders in the AL who get more votes.

You know, you really love to stir the pot and be provocative. That's fine, but in all the arguments you make about Markakis, there is one point you never seem to acknowledge: that he's 25 years old (24 last year) and therefore still has a lot of room to get better. So even if one concedes that he wasn't quite good enough to merit an all-star selection in 2008, don't we have the right to think that, like the majority of players, he is going to keep getting better for a couple of years?

Just take Eddie Murray as an easy example. He was a very good hitter for his first 3 seasons as a very young player, but never had 100 RBI, never made the all-star team, and never won a Gold Glove. But he got better each year and as he hit his mid-late 20's he was an absolute stud.

Is there some reason you feel like Markakis is going to stagnate? Because everything about his career so far says he gets better and better.

[O'sFanThruJune]

How can you say this? He was moved around like a ping pong ball by DT last year to the 2 and 3 spot. He doesn't drive in enough runs to bat third as he is too much of a walker, which is why he is much better suited to bat leadoff.

As John Wayne used to say, "its as simple as that."

To the admittedly small extent that lineup order matters, I have to kind of agree with OldFan. It sure seems to me like Nick is the quintessential #2 hitter. Great OBP, very good BA, good but not great speed, and solid but not outstanding power. Keeping the roster as is, following up Roberts with Markakis seems like a perfect 1-2 punch. And if you can fill up those 3- and 4-slots with good BA and a lot of homers like what we saw out of Huff last year, that's a great way to start your lineup.

Of course, that all changes if the roster is shuffled, or Nick develops 35-homer power, etc.

[ugen64]

To the admittedly small extent that lineup order matters' date=' I have to kind of agree with OldFan. It sure seems to me like Nick is the quintessential #2 hitter. Great OBP, very good BA, good but not great speed, and solid but not outstanding power. Keeping the roster as is, following up Roberts with Markakis seems like a perfect 1-2 punch. And if you can fill up those 3- and 4-slots with good BA and a lot of homers like what we saw out of Huff last year, that's a great way to start your lineup.

Of course, that all changes if the roster is shuffled, or Nick develops 35-homer power, etc.[/quote']

I don't know - many people prescribe to the idea (and, as you say, it doesn't really matter that much) that you place your best overall hitter at #3, and a big OBP guy at #2 (but not necessarily a slugger). So against righties, that would mean something like this:

1) Roberts

2) Mora/DH signing

3) Markakis

4) Huff

5) Scott

What you're saying is more like this:

1) Roberts

2) Markakis

3) Huff

4) Scott

5) DH signing/Mora/Jones

I'm not sure which of these ideas I like better. I bet a lot will come down to where people feel "comfortable" hitting (not that it should really matter, but ya know).

[Old#5fan]

I don't know - many people prescribe to the idea (and, as you say, it doesn't really matter that much) that you place your best overall hitter at #3, and a big OBP guy at #2 (but not necessarily a slugger). So against righties, that would mean something like this:

1) Roberts

2) Mora/DH signing

3) Markakis

4) Huff

5) Scott

What you're saying is more like this:

1) Roberts

2) Markakis

3) Huff

4) Scott

5) DH signing/Mora/Jones

I'm not sure which of these ideas I like better. I bet a lot will come down to where people feel "comfortable" hitting (not that it should really matter, but ya know).

I thought DT kept moving Markakis down to second and Mora to third in the lineup simply because Mora hit bettter with RISP, even though is BA is considerably lower?

[rlc]

Left handed. I guarantee it.