Adam Frazier 2023

[Sanity Check]

PS - This man deserves 100 pages.  He's only going to get it if he's a hero for us in the playoffs and World Series, or we sign him again for next year 

[Malike]

20 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m sure it brought you pleasure to see one of the young players not come through even though that player has been more valuable in way less playing time than your boyfriend has.

Hopefully, no O's fan would be happy to see anyone not succeed in a big spot. While Westburg certainly has been more valuable, especially defensively, it's hard to argue who is going to give you a better at bat late in the game. 

[DirtyBird]

On 3/29/2023 at 1:23 PM, Sports Guy said:

He blows

 

[forphase1]

Come on,  none of us want him to fail.   I was against the signing and I still think it was silly and not needed.   He's had some big moments and big hits,  but overall he's been about replacement level and very poor with the glove.   That said I cheer for him when he's up to bat as the better he does,  the better it is for the Orioles.  Same for Mateo.  I can be against them being on the team as I think we have or had better options, yet cheer like crazy when Mateo was rounding third today.   For the record,  I'm completely fine with Mateo when used like today.   If they were insisting on him starting and getting significant playing time,  then I wanted him gone.   But if he's used as a real role player and pinch runner, then that's perfect. 

Over the years there has been numerous players I wish were not on the team or didn't like how they were used.   But I still wanted them to succeed as I'm an Os fan first and foremost.  I can complain about them here,  yet cheer for them while the game is going on.   I don't recall EVER wanting an Os hitter or pitcher to fail because I didn't like them or to support some stance or post I made.   

[Too Tall]

I worked with a lot of people over the years. One thing I learned is some are pretty set in their ways and thinking. My time on OH hasn't altered that perception!  You may surmise, I think Frazier earned his pay today, in this series, and over the course of this year to date. Others will disagree until Frazier is no longer an Oriole and someone else is the point of disagreement. That is fine And that my friends is The OH. Been a heck of a day!!!!!!

[now]

45 minutes ago, Spy Fox said:

Likely thinking of this go-ahead hit in Seattle's WC series-clinching win over Toronto: 

 

Yup, that's the one! The announcers kept referring to AF as late-inning clutch too; apparently he deserves it.

[Sports Guy]

55 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

I've been on here for months.  He (@DirtyBird) is probably saying out loud what many others are thinking....you've been very vocal that you didn't like the signing, and without going back through this thread, specifically the "wasting" of $8M on Frazier.....and you've said (which I DO agree with) that maybe that money could have been better spent, I think referring to pitching upgrades.  So, I have been watching and reading, and understanding where you're coming from.

But there comes a point where maybe it's time to acknowledge that, for all of his faults, Frazier has been a pretty clutch performer this year.  Was it worth $8M??  Today, some might say yes.  And some of those folks also recognize other really good at bats throughout the season by Frazier, and clutch hits to keep us in games, or put us ahead.  The guy is a true professional.....and let's maybe agree that he gets a lot out of what little talent you think he has.  I'm glad he was on our team all year....and I suspect (more importantly) that his teammates feel the same.

I have said, several times, that I’m happy with him on the team in a certain role.

I also said he should play a lot in this series. I have also said I like his at bats a lot and that I feel good with him up in big spots.

Before the season, I said I was expecting. 1.5-2 WAR guy. Many people on here who didn’t want the signing were more pessimistic about him than I was.

But his signing was a problem because of who he blocked and because he was essentially guaranteed 400+ at bats.

Now, I expected better defense and that has been terrible. I also expected better OBP. I didn’t expect a power increase.

Him being “clutch” This year hasn’t outweighed all the bad but at least he has been that at times we needed him, like today. 

 

[Tony-OH]

I was against the signing, but for all his shortcomings, the man has come up clutch several times this year and no hit of his was bigger than the one in the 9th yesterday. 

I've said earlier in the year that his main strength is being able to put the ball in play against strike out pitchers, and sure enough, that poke down the left field line is a perfect example of that ability.

I'm not going to revisit the Frazier vs Westburg/Ortiz discussion because for now, it's all OBE. I will say though, with the game on the line, I'd rather have Frazier up against hard throwing right-handed strike out pitcher than either Westburg or Ortiz in this stage of their careers. 

So I will graciously tip the cap to Elias for the signing because he's certainly contributed to this magical season.

[tntoriole]

I was a Frazier advocate from the beginning in part because my fav NL team is the Pirates and I always enjoyed his play back then.  But I understood and accept the majority views against it.

His coming through yesterday was an example of his professionalism as a hitter in extreme pressure situations .  He always has a plan and an approach and while he doesn’t always succeed obviously, he has added much to our 2023 season!! 

[bobmc]

1 minute ago, tntoriole said:

I was a Frazier advocate from the beginning in part because my fav NL team is the Pirates and I always enjoyed his play back then.  But I understood and accept the majority views against it.

His coming through yesterday was an example of his professionalism as a hitter in extreme pressure situations .  He always has a plan and an approach and while he doesn’t always succeed obviously, he has added much to our 2023 season!! 

Iconic moment!

[btdart20]

At the close of 2022 many of us were saying a TOR SP and some bullpen arms were what we needed.  We didn't need to bring in MI help because we had plenty of shots on goal at 2B and SS.  Elias clearly thought differently.  And then came the "Lift off" comment to stir the beehive.

Frazier (like Lyles and Gibson) is a Chosen Guy.  They all were "overpaid" by prevailing market standards for a reason.  Elias wanted them to fill a specific need/role.  And they all have (to varying degrees) done what Elias paid them to do.  Whatever the reason  can only speculate on reasons why Elias wanted to block prospects (and yes, Frazier has done that).  LHH, roster construction, matchup ability, bench depth, low K%, plus defense, positional flexibility, OBP bounceback, clutch hitter, path to more power, raise the competitive floor/barrier to entry for prospects, veteran:rookie risk ratio...  Obviously, (in hindsight) some of those have been a value-add while some haven't.  But all of those seem to have some type of merit planning for 2023.  Lift off was about a shift in mindset to being competitive in 2023.  Decisions weren't fully about reaching developmental milestones.  

For 2023, as a Chosen Guy, Frazier was a success.  

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

At the close of 2022 many of us were saying a TOR SP and some bullpen arms were what we needed.  We didn't need to bring in MI help because we had plenty of shots on goal at 2B and SS.  Elias clearly thought differently.  And then came the "Lift off" comment to stir the beehive.

Frazier (like Lyles and Gibson) is a Chosen Guy.  They all were "overpaid" by prevailing market standards for a reason.  Elias wanted them to fill a specific need/role.  And they all have (to varying degrees) done what Elias paid them to do.  Whatever the reason  can only speculate on reasons why Elias wanted to block prospects (and yes, Frazier has done that).  LHH, roster construction, matchup ability, bench depth, low K%, plus defense, positional flexibility, OBP bounceback, clutch hitter, path to more power, raise the competitive floor/barrier to entry for prospects, veteran:rookie risk ratio...  Obviously, (in hindsight) some of those have been a value-add while some haven't.  But all of those seem to have some type of merit planning for 2023.  Lift off was about a shift in mindset to being competitive in 2023.  Decisions weren't fully about reaching developmental milestones.  

For 2023, as a Chosen Guy, Frazier was a success.  

Hard to argue with any of this. Good post.

[eddie83]

I genuinely think his defense has been better this month.  

[BRobinsonfan]

13 hours ago, Malike said:

Hopefully, no O's fan would be happy to see anyone not succeed in a big spot. While Westburg certainly has been more valuable, especially defensively, it's hard to argue who is going to give you a better at bat late in the game. 

He has come up with some big hits for us but overall he's hitting .215 in innings 7-9.  

[Yossarian]

2 hours ago, btdart20 said:

At the close of 2022 many of us were saying a TOR SP and some bullpen arms were what we needed.  We didn't need to bring in MI help because we had plenty of shots on goal at 2B and SS.  Elias clearly thought differently.  And then came the "Lift off" comment to stir the beehive.

Frazier (like Lyles and Gibson) is a Chosen Guy.  They all were "overpaid" by prevailing market standards for a reason.  Elias wanted them to fill a specific need/role.  And they all have (to varying degrees) done what Elias paid them to do.  Whatever the reason  can only speculate on reasons why Elias wanted to block prospects (and yes, Frazier has done that).  LHH, roster construction, matchup ability, bench depth, low K%, plus defense, positional flexibility, OBP bounceback, clutch hitter, path to more power, raise the competitive floor/barrier to entry for prospects, veteran:rookie risk ratio...  Obviously, (in hindsight) some of those have been a value-add while some haven't.  But all of those seem to have some type of merit planning for 2023.  Lift off was about a shift in mindset to being competitive in 2023.  Decisions weren't fully about reaching developmental milestones.  

For 2023, as a Chosen Guy, Frazier was a success.  

The question is: Did he need to overpay for these guys?  I don't remember there being a big market for Frazier, Gibson, or Lyles.  They have certainly filled a role in this team and their impact has been positive, but I didn't see a reason to pay above market value for them.