Yennier Canó 2023

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

They got the 22nd ranked prospect in a so so system, 2 lottery tickets and an “old” reliever that hadn’t accomplished much in the minors.

If he continues pitching well, as he has, and they trade him in July or this offseason, I think they get more than that.

Now, Povich is developing well although the consistency isn’t there yet. Cano has obviously been amazing in the SSS so far this year and maybe there is something there with the lottery tickets but that’s a ways away from reality.

We will see how everyone looks. Obviously things look good now but I think that would have happened at a later date and we kept Lopez. 
 

They targeted guys and got players they wanted who are doing well. That doesn’t mean they traded Lopez at his highest point. It just means they got a deal they felt was worth it. Those are 2 different things.

Again, you keep saying these prospect lists mean nothing but then you quote them to make your case.

So they got the 22 prospect in a week system who Tony has ranked #12 in a very strong system and an old reliever who currently is the best in the game.  Maybe.  Just maybe Elias knows what he’s doing but hey you just keep telling yourself he could have done better by waiting a year, assuming health, continued production, a year less of service time, and a willing trade partner.   Maybe we could get a prospect off of one of those meaningless (your words) top 100 lists and you could argue we did better.   

[emmett16]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Sure and that’s what happened. The question is and always has been, was it the right move.

That’s the debate.

I personally think there is more to the discussion than just the return. There are many layers to any trade.

They got a lot more than just the return.  In addition to getting an “old” reliever (who is younger than the reliever traded and under contract for longer) they got some salary relief, opened up an opportunity for Bautista (who outperformed Lopez down the stretch last year), and bolstered their minor league starting pitching stable significantly.  

Edited May 20, 2023 by emmett16

[oriolediehard]

2 games before we traded Lopez, he blew 2 saves in a row to the Twins.  Elias must have saw something that he made the trade at the right time.

[Sports Guy]

8 hours ago, Frobby said:

I’m fine with that distinction.  And I’m fine with a GM who makes trades when he gets a deal he thinks is worth it without holding on in the hope that the player’s value will go even higher.   Because it can also go lower.  So if the value is good, pull the trigger if the direction of the trade makes strategic sense.  

Are you ok with this thought process if he wanted to trade Cano this July?

[Sports Guy]

8 hours ago, emmett16 said:

They got a lot more than just the return.  In addition to getting an “old” reliever (who is younger than the reliever traded and under contract for longer) they got some salary relief, opened up an opportunity for Bautista (who outperformed Lopez down the stretch last year), and bolstered their minor league starting pitching stable significantly.  

Bautista already had that opportunity and if he is better than Lopez, you should want him in higher leverage situations than the close role which usually doesn’t get as many high leverage situations as the set up guys do.

Im Not sure we can say, at this time, that the MiL pitching was bolstered significantly. Too early to say that. It was bolstered for sure..whether or not is significant remains to be seen.

But yes, getting the younger (albeit not by a lot) reliever who is cheaper and performing at a higher level on the ML roster right now is the best part of this trade.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Sports Guy]

8 hours ago, Pickles said:

I think it is just stupid obfuscation from a trash take you had in August.  There aren't that many layers to it.  It's actually pretty simple.

A) Jorge Lopez

VS

B) Cano, Povich, Nunez, Rojas

Nobody in their right mind would prefer A over B.  And none of your unicorn farts and magic fairy dust changes that.  

 

It’s not surprising that you don’t get that there are other aspects of the trade to consider, especially without using the benefit of hindsight.

[RZNJ]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s not surprising that you don’t get that there are other aspects of the trade to consider, especially without using the benefit of hindsight.

You talk about using hindsight but then say we could have kept Lopez and still acquired Cano in a separate deal.  If that’s not hindsight then nothing is.

[Sports Guy]

15 hours ago, owknows said:

Some of us saw Cano as a little more than a throw in.

 

 

Interesting thread to go back and read.

Lots of people didn’t like the deal including people who are acting like it was a no brainer at the time.

I said it that day and I still believe but Povich was a good player to get in that deal…but not as the headliner. As a second piece, that would have been excellent. As I said then, I believe the value wasn’t there to trade Lopez yet. 

Now, using hindsight, Cano has come out of nowhere without doing much prior to this April and looks great. 

I made the comment, as Tate got brought up, that I would have been happy getting Povich and Rojas for Tate. I think that would have made more sense. Tate was having a big year and was cost controlled and we have seen good relievers traded for similar packages over the years. 
 

Lopez essentially got traded for a good reliever package..not a dominant back end guy, which is what he was. That’s not surprising that was his value since he didn’t have enough of a track record, which goes back to my point of wanting to wait for him to build more value.

A Twins message board was linked and their fans didn’t think they gave up much at all. That’s interesting.

This is something else I said at the time, which goes with what I have been saying about being able to get these guys in other deals:

My issue here, besides underselling imo, is that you didn’t get anything special.  All of these guys may have an upside that could end up being really good..but they aren’t unique arms.  They aren’t unique talents.  They are readily available guys that every team has. 
 

For me, to justify trading Lopez, I needed a better headliner. Now, I don’t think that deal exists.  I think they took the best offer they got but I would have rather held onto him and either win with him next year or look to trade him later when his value gets higher, which I think it will.

 

[Frobby]

56 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

You talk about using hindsight but then say we could have kept Lopez and still acquired Cano in a separate deal.  If that’s not hindsight then nothing is.

I wouldn’t call that hindsight, I’d call it wishful thinking.  We have zero idea what it would have taken to get Cano in a standalone deal.  Just like we don’t know if 1.3 years of Lopez this July would have fetched as much as 2.3 years of Lopez last July.  

[maybenxtyr]

They said on the radio broadcast the other night that Elias tried to sign him before. That he was a target on their radar from the get go. 

[sportsfan8703]

Not a bad spot for Cano to eventually give up a run. So now all that hooplah is behind him and he can actually have an ERA+ now. Haha. 
 

Welcome to an ERA+ 1099

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I wouldn’t call that hindsight, I’d call it wishful thinking.  We have zero idea what it would have taken to get Cano in a standalone deal.  Just like we don’t know if 1.3 years of Lopez this July would have fetched as much as 2.3 years of Lopez last July.  

It can’t be hindsight when it was literally my argument when the trade was made.

That said, it’s definitely not some reach that Cano could have been had in a different trade. He wasn’t some in demand guy. He was a complete afterthought in this trade. 
 

Guys like him, with the track record he had, are readily available. We literally have gotten guys like that for free in recent years.

[fernandodfcosta]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/insider/story/_/id/34334052/trade-grades-minnesota-twins-add-all-star-closer-jorge-lopez-baltimore-orioles-get-another-f

ESPN grades the trade!!!

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It can’t be hindsight when it was literally my argument when the trade was made.

That said, it’s definitely not some reach that Cano could have been had in a different trade. He wasn’t some in demand guy. He was a complete afterthought in this trade. 
 

Guys like him, with the track record he had, are readily available. We literally have gotten guys like that for free in recent years.

We got Lopez for free, as I recall. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

We got Lopez for free, as I recall. 

Exactly. Thus my point. Those guys are always available, so to think Cano couldn’t have been obtained in other ways is pretty foolish imo.