Ortiz vs Westburg

[Sports Guy]

What is your choice here?

I have an impression that the Orioles are higher on Ortiz than Westburg. It’s just my opinion, nothing super concrete on it but it’s not my thoughts on it.

One of them almost has to be traded. Yes, one of them could be a super uti type guy but at the end of the day, they would likely carry more value to us in a trade (as part of a deal) vs being a part time player.

Holliday and Henderson is your left side for years to come and they are likely to be 155 games a year type players.

So, that really only leaves second base.  
 

I guess it’s possible Westburg develops into a COF but I tend to believe his value will be on the IF.

So, who do you got here, to essentially be the starting second baseman and every once in a while replacement on the left side?

One is kept, one is traded.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Sports Guy

[waroriole]

I prefer Westburg because of the bat. But I don’t think a trade needs to be made until after next season. I don’t expect Holliday at all next year. Mateo and/or Urias should be traded now though. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, waroriole said:

I prefer Westburg because of the bat. But I don’t think a trade needs to be made until after next season. I don’t expect Holliday at all next year. Mateo and/or Urias should be traded now though. 

Holliday is going to be there next year. I will go as far to say that I think it’s more likely he debuts in 2023 vs 2025.

[Bemorewins]

Great question! I hate to hedge down the middle, but I’m really not sure.

I would advocate maybe slightly for trading Westburg because he may have a little more value. Plus when you project the lineup maybe next year with Mullins, Adley, Gunnar, Holliday, Kjerstad, and Cowser all hitting back to back in some combo. I think we will be good getting great production from just those 6 so whatever we get out of 7, 8, and 9 I’m fine with (as long as it’s not as bad as Mateo’s May…lol).

But if Ortiz is more of a glove first guy, who can slide over and play the left side of the infield if need be, that works to me.

[forphase1]

That is a great question.   I'd really love to see Westburg get called up so we can start to compare the two against mlb competition.   Judging only on numbers in the minors and reports,  Westburg is the better and more polished bat while Ortiz is a better,  smoother defender.  Defense usually translates fairly well while moving up,  the bat is less certain.   I'm not going to really turn this into a replacing starters thread, but I'd love to see Westburg called up and let him and Ortiz get regular playing time to help make this determination.   Mateo should start sitting IMO.

[geschinger]

I don't think there is a huge gap offensively so I would keep the one who is the better defender which is why I chose Ortiz.

[Sports Guy]

I believe in both guys.  I think they are both everyday players in the majors.

For this question and knowing the Orioles, I’m taking Ortiz by a slim margin. They value defense, as they should, and his defense is just better. He may be a GG caliber guy at 3 positions.

I think they aren’t sure where Westburg best fits (personally I think he will be a good enough third baseman but we have Gunnar) and Ortiz has excellent exit velos and a good offensive profile for our park.

I think between that, the swing and miss in Westburg and the wall in LF hurting Westburg more than Ortiz, I think Ortiz is the answer.

My real answer is probably whoever gets us more in a trade but my sole on the field baseball answer, for our needs, leans Ortiz.

[glenn__davis]

I like Westburg a lot, but if you follow his MiLB career he's pretty streaky.  He has some insane hot streaks but then some pretty severe cold streaks as well.  Which of course is true of a lot players, but if I had to choose, I'd take Ortiz.

[owknows]

Keep 'em both.

 

Westburg 1B

Ortiz 2B

Holliday SS

Henderson 3B

Any one of them could play any position in a pinch. You don't need a UTIL. Just another couple 1B/DH types.

[Bemorewins]

5 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I prefer Westburg because of the bat. But I don’t think a trade needs to be made until after next season. I don’t expect Holliday at all next year. Mateo and/or Urias should be traded now though. 

Mateo likely has little to no trade value currently. Have you watched him hit in May? lol

As far as Urias, I’m okay with trading him. But what kind of return can he really bring back if he is the centerpiece of the deal?

Most likely Westburg and Ortiz, would have more value to a rebuilding team. The type of team that we will need to execute a trade with in order to obtain a serious starting pitching upgrade.

As far as Holliday goes, I totally disagree. Are you watching closely what the young man is doing? Few in the game have ever produced those kind of numbers AT ANY LEVEL of the minors! He has an on base average of over .500 for the almost 60 games that he has played thus far AND is hitting .400 this season thus far. That’s absolutely top of the charts ELITE! That’s not a guy that you slow walk through the minors like almost everyone else. If and that’s an IF, he continues to produce at the level that he has since being a pro, it would be org practice to try to keep him down in the Minors for another season and a half. In all honesty, he is probably better than Westburg and Ortiz right now. The kid appears to be that special. If you don’t agree with my assessment that’s fine. But please point out one issue or weakness in his game.

[Aristotelian]

I am not sure the O's are higher on Ortiz. He was called up first but a big factor in that was that he was Rule 5 eligible this year, forcing him onto the 40 man roster earlier than Westburg. They haven't given him consistent AB's so it seems perhaps they view him as a utility guy who doesn't need to play every day. 

I really haven't seen Westburg play defense enough to have an educated opinion. He seems to have the more advanced bat and a lot more power. Ortiz has impressed with his defense but we don't know if he will hit enough to play every day.  

Is keep both an option? 

[maybenxtyr]

Nothing against Ortiz at all, but I've been on the Westburg bandwagon since his time in Delmarva so I'm not going to deviate now.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

Keep 'em both.

 

Westburg 1B

Ortiz 2B

Holliday SS

Henderson 3B

Any one of them could play any position in a pinch. You don't need a UTIL. Just another couple 1B/DH types.

I think they would have had Westburg at first if they believed in him there. (Not sure why they wouldn’t)

I also  think Kjerstad and especially Mayo have higher upside and one of them is your long term first baseman.

[Moose Milligan]

It's hard to say without having seen any of Westburg at the ML level.

I'm assuming Henderson stays at 3rd, Holliday will be at SS as soon as a year from now.  That leaves 2B open for either one of these two.  

I would probably stick with Ortiz as he profiles to be a better defender and I don't mind sacrificing some hitting for a great glove up the middle.  And it's not that Ortiz looks completely lost at the plate either, I know he just doesn't have the pop that Westburg has.

I don't think there's a wrong answer here.  At the end of the day, it's nice to have options and it's nice to have plus talent in the system.

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, owknows said:

Keep 'em both.

 

Westburg 1B

Ortiz 2B

Holliday SS

Henderson 3B

Any one of them could play any position in a pinch. You don't need a UTIL. Just another couple 1B/DH types.

So I’m that scenario we get rid of Mountcastle, Urias, Mateo, Frazier? 

What do you think the value than any and all of them are to a rebuilding team? What can any of those players realistically bring back in a deal if they are not package with prospects/young assets?