The Westburg and Cowser dilemma

[Going Underground]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Elias said Cowser was about ready to come off the IL.  But would he go straight to the majors after not playing for almost 2 weeks?  I doubt it. 

Just saw he hasn't played since May 16th. I guess if Mullins is out for a long period that they would probably call him up after about a week. Perhaps in Milwaukee 

[dtk9119]

McKenna for a week then hopefully Cowser gets the call up.

[Going Underground]

Just now, dtk9119 said:

McKenna for a week then hopefully Cowser gets the call up.

If Cowser starts playing tomorrow and can come up next week it would only be five games.

[ChuckS]

5 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

If Cowser starts playing tomorrow and can come up next week it would only be five games.

Why is that?  You expect a minimum DL stay for Mullins. 

It's a right abductor groin strain.  I could see this keeping him out for six weeks.  Hopefully not. 

[Going Underground]

1 minute ago, ChuckS said:

Why is that?  You expect a minimum DL stay for Mullins. 

It's a right abductor groin strain.  I could see this keeping him out for six weeks.  Hopefully not. 

I meant if Cowser starts playing tomorrow, he could be up next week 

[ChuckS]

1 minute ago, Going Underground said:

I meant if Cowser starts playing tomorrow, he could be up next week 

Okay.  Yeah, I agree.  Not sure what the team's protocol is on promoting players coming off injuries. 

I could see him looking good in a single series (three games) and then getting the call or being kept down in Norfolk longer than a week depending on how he's hitting. 

[Bemorewins]

6 hours ago, wildcard said:

Your dilemma is based on trade value.  And since I don't see the O's trading Cowser or Westburg any time this season I am not worried about it.

The players that will be traded or gone in the next year are Frazier, Santander, Gibson,  Givens and Mateo is edging in that direction.

Frazier, Gibson, Givens will be FA after the season.   Santander will be in his walk year next year and the O's are probably not signing him to a long term extension.   Mateo though a great defender has slumped badly for two years in a row.   With Henderson and Ortiz on the team and Holliday progressing fast I don't think Mateo is here next year.

Of the prospects Stowers because he is not as good as Mullins, Hays, Cowser or Kjerstad could be tradable.    Norby and Prieto are hitters that  are not great defenders.   I could see them traded.

I feel good about Wells, Kremer, Bradish and Gibson for the rest of the season.   GRod was sent down but he did not die.    He will be back after a reset.  Voth, Irvin, Watkins, Rom could help over the rest of season when needed.  Hall is still here and is could be promoted if he just shows some consistency.

I expect the same thing to happen at the trade deadline that has happened in the past.   The O's talk about getting a better starter.   But when it comes down to executing a trade they will not want to give  up what it required to get a top starter.

The O's have the 2nd best record is the MLB and they are still getting better.  

 

Of the bolded players mentioned, what value does ANY of them carry? A Domincan lottery ticket at most a single A gamble? It seems that those players are more valuable to the Orioles than other teams. No? If we get rid of Gibson, who is going to give us consistent length in this rotation? Are you concerned about the strain and stress on the bullpen that the 4 "5 and dive" guys in the rotation have placed upon the bullpen all season?

What trade value does Stowers carry? Norby and Prieto? If you packaged all 3 assuming that you could find a team to want them, what would that do/get you? 

Sounds like you "love our guys" in the rotation. And while I again commend you for your optimism as a fan. It's hard to filter through a lens that includes colors beyond orange and black. Beyond pure hope, dreams and wishes. I don't know how to look at our current rotation and compare the talent on the other teams starting staffs and come to the conclusion, I would rather have the O's.

Surely if given a choice, you would not take a combination of Wells, Kremer, Bradish, Gibson, GRod, Voth, Irvin, Watkins, Rom, and Cole over Cole, Rodon, and Cortes OR Gray, Ryan, and Lopez OR deGrom, Evoldi, and Gray/Perez OR Valdez, Javier, and Brown?

I don't think it takes anything away from one's fandom to admit other teams have more talent/better pitchers and that we need to improve upon our's in order to give ourselves a better chance to beat them.

[Sanity Check]

7 hours ago, wildcard said:

Your dilemma is based on trade value.  And since I don't see the O's trading Cowser or Westburg any time this season I am not worried about it.

The players that will be traded or gone in the next year are Frazier, Santander, Gibson,  Givens and Mateo is edging in that direction.

Frazier, Gibson, Givens will be FA after the season.   Santander will be in his walk year next year and the O's are probably not signing him to a long term extension.   Mateo though a great defender has slumped badly for two years in a row.   With Henderson and Ortiz on the team and Holliday progressing fast I don't think Mateo is here next year.

Of the prospects Stowers because he is not as good as Mullins, Hays, Cowser or Kjerstad could be tradable.    Norby and Prieto are hitters that  are not great defenders.   I could see them traded.

I feel good about Wells, Kremer, Bradish and Gibson for the rest of the season.   GRod was sent down but he did not die.    He will be back after a reset.  Voth, Irvin, Watkins, Rom could help over the rest of season when needed.  Hall is still here and is could be promoted if he just shows some consistency.

I expect the same thing to happen at the trade deadline that has happened in the past.   The O's talk about getting a better starter.   But when it comes down to executing a trade they will not want to give  up what it required to get a top starter.

The O's have the 2nd best record is the MLB and they are still getting better.  

 

You may or may not be right about who eventually will be traded..  In a scenario where we are trying to lure players from a team that is not in the playoff hunt, those teams will want our prospects, not the major league guys that won't be part of their longer term rebuild.  So, I do see a Westburg, Ortiz or even Cowser as the players teams will WANT more than those that you listed.  That's the part that I don't think people get....other teams don't want the guys we want to get rid of....they want the guys that we want to keep, and that is also a dilemma when it comes to trade decisions.

[sportsfan8703]

We need a spark. Cowser should be our RF against RH SP. Westburg should play over over Mateo versus RH SP and over Frazier/Gunnar over LH SP. 

[OriolesMagic83]

10 hours ago, Orioles0615 said:

Westburg is hitting .286 with a .907 OPS and 31 home runs and 118 rbi in 131 aaa games. No excuse for him not to be here anymore

Too bad RBIs aren't important.  I mean when the O's have a runner at 3rd, with 2 outs or 1 out, the last thing I want is a player getting a hit.  

[Billy F-Face3]

4 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Too bad RBIs aren't important.  I mean when the O's have a runner at 3rd, with 2 outs or 1 out, the last thing I want is a player getting a hit.  

You're probably on the other team then.

[wildcard]

13 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

You may or may not be right about who eventually will be traded..  In a scenario where we are trying to lure players from a team that is not in the playoff hunt, those teams will want our prospects, not the major league guys that won't be part of their longer term rebuild.  So, I do see a Westburg, Ortiz or even Cowser as the players teams will WANT more than those that you listed.  That's the part that I don't think people get....other teams don't want the guys we want to get rid of....they want the guys that we want to keep, and that is also a dilemma when it comes to trade decisions.

I don't see the O's adding much at the deadline.   Maybe a reliever.   Probably not a TOR starter.   

[wildcard]

14 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Of the bolded players mentioned, what value does ANY of them carry? A Domincan lottery ticket at most a single A gamble? It seems that those players are more valuable to the Orioles than other teams. No? If we get rid of Gibson, who is going to give us consistent length in this rotation? Are you concerned about the strain and stress on the bullpen that the 4 "5 and dive" guys in the rotation have placed upon the bullpen all season?

What trade value does Stowers carry? Norby and Prieto? If you packaged all 3 assuming that you could find a team to want them, what would that do/get you? 

Sounds like you "love our guys" in the rotation. And while I again commend you for your optimism as a fan. It's hard to filter through a lens that includes colors beyond orange and black. Beyond pure hope, dreams and wishes. I don't know how to look at our current rotation and compare the talent on the other teams starting staffs and come to the conclusion, I would rather have the O's.

Surely if given a choice, you would not take a combination of Wells, Kremer, Bradish, Gibson, GRod, Voth, Irvin, Watkins, Rom, and Cole over Cole, Rodon, and Cortes OR Gray, Ryan, and Lopez OR deGrom, Evoldi, and Gray/Perez OR Valdez, Javier, and Brown?

I don't think it takes anything away from one's fandom to admit other teams have more talent/better pitchers and that we need to improve upon our's in order to give ourselves a better chance to beat them.

Wells has a 3.29 ERA.  I think that is who he is.

Gibson has a  3.82 ERA.   I think he will be around a 4.00 ERA

Kremer has a 2.45 ERA in May.  He had a 3.23 ERA last year.   I think he can repeat last year.

Bradish has a 2.76 ERA in May.   He had a 3.28 in the 2nd half last year.     I think he can repeat the 3.28.

 Voth had a 3.04 ERA last year.   And I expect GRod back pitching better.  

This is why I feel good about the rotation.

[emmett16]

39 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I don't see the O's adding much at the deadline.   Maybe a reliever.   Probably not a TOR starter.   

This is where I am.  I’d love a stud SP but this FO is very risk averse.  I see them solidifying the bullpen and that’s about it.

[MCO'sFan]

20 hours ago, 2001OriolesFan said:

Mateo is more than edging in that direction.  He is 6th from bottom in fielding percentage  Too many routine plays were flubbed. Doesn't make up for all the  wow plays.

I am ready to move on from Mateo. I would like to see McKenna replaced as well. Replace those two with Westburg and Cowser (when he's healthy) and get them 4-5 starts a week and see what happens. Regarding the OP, there is no dilemma. As others have pointed out, Stowers was never that highly rated and based on how he has been used, the Orioles agree. He may be a fringe starter on a bad team but that has always been his projection. I don't think that MLB clubs are that influenced by SSS or they aren't in those jobs for long.