Hicks > McKenna

[Frobby]

 

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I was surprised to see the esteemed @Frobby authoring such a scorching hot take.

It's not that I'm a huge McKenna fan (I'm not, and I think there's a good chance we miss the playoffs by one game, and when that happens we'll all look at his dropped fly ball) but this is a simple decision based on one big factor for me; Hicks is 33, McKenna is 26.  

There's a lot to like about Hicks, but this is an extreme small sample size and I'm sure the love affair that this board is having with him will cool whenever his bat does.  At that point, I believe the differences between him and McKenna will be largely imperceptible and debating them will be the equivalent of arguing about which item off the menu at Taco Bell is less likely to give you diarrhea.  But then again, this is the OH and this is what we do.

If someone wants to render McKenna as kind of a doofus who doesn't always have his head in the game and is prone to making bad decisions on the basepaths, you won't get an argument from me there.  Hicks probably has him beat in that department.  But I don't believe this is some easy, clear cut decision.

I said it before earlier this week, I'll say it again:  This place is really weird.  There was such a backlash about the Hicks signing (even though it made complete sense) that I think we all forgot about Adam Frazier for a second.  And he's played better than anyone's expected in an extremely small sample size and now there's this burgeoning love affair to keep him as a 4th outfielder.  

 

 

I think I have clear eyes about Hicks.  He has a .640 OPS the last three years: .627, .642, .647.   That’s the Hicks I’m expecting, not the 1.086 Hicks we’ve seen for 6 games.   

That said, I’ve had three years to watch McKenna, who has a .604 OPS in that time: .559/.634/.645.  Pretty identical the last two years.  But, he’s never put up a .300 OBP in any of those three years, while Hicks has a .320 OBP in that time. 

I also like the fact that Hicks is a switch hitter with relatively even splits, whereas McKenna is punchless against RHP and just okay vs. LHP.

Bottom line, I’m kinda done with McKenna.  And though I understand that McKenna is 7 years younger, (1) he’s not really getting any better, and (2) he has an option remaining, while Hicks would have to be DFA.   So, I’d rather keep Hicks.  

Now, all this may be the equivalent of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, since both these guys are bit players in the scheme of things and Cowser May supplant either of them.  But so long as one of them is going to be on the roster, I’d rather it be Hicks.  


 

[HelenaEngineer]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I was surprised to see the esteemed @Frobby authoring such a scorching hot take.

It's not that I'm a huge McKenna fan (I'm not, and I think there's a good chance we miss the playoffs by one game, and when that happens we'll all look at his dropped fly ball) but this is a simple decision based on one big factor for me; Hicks is 33, McKenna is 26.  

There's a lot to like about Hicks, but this is an extreme small sample size and I'm sure the love affair that this board is having with him will cool whenever his bat does.  At that point, I believe the differences between him and McKenna will be largely imperceptible and debating them will be the equivalent of arguing about which item off the menu at Taco Bell is less likely to give you diarrhea.  But then again, this is the OH and this is what we do.

If someone wants to render McKenna as kind of a doofus who doesn't always have his head in the game and is prone to making bad decisions on the basepaths, you won't get an argument from me there.  Hicks probably has him beat in that department.  But I don't believe this is some easy, clear cut decision.

I said it before earlier this week, I'll say it again:  This place is really weird.  There was such a backlash about the Hicks signing (even though it made complete sense) that I think we all forgot about Adam Frazier for a second.  And he's played better than anyone's expected in an extremely small sample size and now there's this burgeoning love affair to keep him as a 4th outfielder.  

 

 

Since Frobby's comment was about 2023 and keeping McKenna in the organization with an option, I don't really see the relevance of Hicks being 33 vs McKenna being 26. This is not a multi-year decision. In addition, you refer to a small sample size, but over his career, Hicks has been slightly superior in the field to McKenna and significantly better at the plate. Neither is likely a long-term answer, but for this season, I don't see any legitimate refutation to his view that Hicks can give you anything that McKenna can and a bit more, including the ability to hit from the left side if needed and a career OPS that is over 100 points higher.

[SemperFi]

Offensively I think they are a wash but Hicks does everything on defense McKenna sometimes misses.  He is a professional; he knows the batters, he hits cut off men, maybe plays a little deeper now but takes good routes, decent arm.  He also adds a veteran (playoff too) prescence which ME seems to value.

[Sports Guy]

Hicks was a starter not long ago and paid 70M. 
 

From 2019 through now, he has been worth 3.4 WAR in 310 games.

McKenna has been worth .8 WAR in his 244 games.  
 

So even in Hicks’ down years, he has been the more productive player.

Now, Hicks is obviously a lot older and has had a lot of injury issues.

Still, he’s probably the superior player and age doesn’t really matter for a role player position like that, especially in a year where you are contending.

They probably could make a good platoon in CF if you wanted to go a cheap route next year, if you were to deal Mullins in the offseason.

If you had an OF of Cowser, Mullins and Hays, you don’t really need 2 defensive replacements although depending on what you do at the deadline, you could have room for both of these guys.

[Aristotelian]

I'm surprised McKenna has never evolved as a base stealer. He really doesn't provide any value beyond defense. Hicks can do everything McKenna can do but with much better OBP and a bit more power, plus he is a switch hitter. Similar to Frazier, I hated the signing and still do because I'd rather see the young guys, but he is an upgrade and has performed well. I support Hicks>McKenna.

[JimGinSP]

It has reached the point where we may ask ourselves who do you put up to hit the bases clearing triple in the MLB Wild Card series?  Hicks, McKenna, Lester, Vavra or Cowser?  

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Now, all this may be the equivalent of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic,  

 

Yes.

But this ain't the Titanic!  To the moon, baby!!!

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yes.

But this ain't the Titanic!  To the moon, baby!!!

Avenue 5?

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Hicks was a starter not long ago and paid 70M. 
 

From 2019 through now, he has been worth 3.4 WAR in 310 games.

McKenna has been worth .8 WAR in his 244 games.  
 

So even in Hicks’ down years, he has been the more productive player.

Now, Hicks is obviously a lot older and has had a lot of injury issues.

Still, he’s probably the superior player and age doesn’t really matter for a role player position like that, especially in a year where you are contending.

They probably could make a good platoon in CF if you wanted to go a cheap route next year, if you were to deal Mullins in the offseason.

If you had an OF of Cowser, Mullins and Hays, you don’t really need 2 defensive replacements although depending on what you do at the deadline, you could have room for both of these guys.

Hicks is on a one year contract.   He will be a FA at the end of the season if the O's don't extend him.  He will probably want a starting job next season the O’s may not be able to offer that.

 If Hicks continues to play well.  And if Cowser plays well; Hays and Mullins are healthy.  The O's  will have to decide if they trade Hicks at the deadline for a prospect.   

How much better will Hicks be  as a backup a the deadline than McKenna, Stowers, Kjerstad, Cameron, Haskin, Vavra?

[Frobby]

Just now, wildcard said:

Hicks is on a one year contract.   He will be a FA at the end of the season if the O's don't extend him.  He will probably want a starting job next season the O’s may not be able to offer that.

 If Hicks continues to play well.  And if Cowser plays well; Hays and Mullins are healthy.  The O's  will have to decide if they trade Hicks at the deadline for a prospect.   

How much better will Hicks be  as a backup a the deadline than McKenna, Stowers, Kjerstad, Cameron, Haskin, Vavra?

Let’s be realistic here.  We picked Hicks up off waivers.  He’s 33.   We’re not trading him for a prospect unless by prospect you mean “warm body.” 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Avenue 5?

I don't know what that is.

To your points, I understand the arguments for Hicks over McKenna and don't disagree entirely.  

But here's what Hicks had to say in this article:  https://www.nj.com/yankees/2023/06/after-leaving-yankees-bearded-aaron-hicks-says-he-can-show-off-my-personality.html

Quote

“I can just go play,” Hicks said. “I’ve played pretty much every game since I’ve been here. I felt kind of this year I was put in a role [in New York]. It’s tough when you’re playing in a role, you never really know when you’re going to play. It’s hard to get into a rhythm, and I’m more of a rhythm hitter.”

I don't know what he's expecting since he's probably not going to play every game when Mullins returns.  And if Cowser comes up, too.

So, like I said, I'm expecting a serious drop off in production once he's playing sparingly.  Is it more than what McKenna can produce off the bench?  Maybe, we'll see.  I see the arguments for Hicks over McKenna, but like you said I think this is rearranging deck chairs.  I also get that McKenna is kind of a whipping boy on here, he's not popular and an easy target of sorts.

While we're here, I think Hicks saying he's more of a "rhythm hitter" is hysterical.  Set a metronome, Aaron.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't know what that is.

Avenue 5 is an HBO comedy about a luxury space liner (think: cruise ship in space) that gets thrown off course.   It had two short seasons, but the pandemic messed up its casting contracts and so it was discontinued. It starred Hugh Laurie as the captain of the ship.  Very funny show IMO.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Avenue 5 is an HBO comedy about a luxury space liner (think: cruise ship in space) that gets thrown off course.   It had two short seasons, but the pandemic messed up its casting contracts and so it was discontinued. It starred Hugh Laurie as the captain of the ship.  Very funny show IMO.

I will check that out!

[wildcard]

20 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Let’s be realistic here.  We picked Hicks up off waivers.  He’s 33.   We’re not trading him for a prospect unless by prospect you mean “warm body.” 

If Hicks is hitting for an 800 OPS or better at the deadline I can see some teams calling Elias with a decent prospect offer.   And remember Elias got Seth Johnson and McDermott for two months of Mancini.

Whether Hicks is too valuable to trade with the O's going to the playoffs is a decision Elias may have to make.

Edited June 9, 2023 by wildcard

[Frobby]

18 minutes ago, wildcard said:

If Hicks is hitting for an 800 OPS or better at the deadline I can see some teams calling Elias with a decent prospect offer.   And remember Elias got Seth Johnson and McDermott for two months of Mancini.

Whether Hicks is too valuable to trade with the O's going to the playoffs is a decision Elias may have to make.

I doubt Hicks will be hitting .800 OPS at the deadline.   He’s a .715 OPS career hitter who’s been well under that the last three years.  I’m glad he had a good first week but I’m expecting him to cool down  significantly.