Orioles related trade rumors and speculation leading up to the deadline

[FlipTheBird]

1 minute ago, clapdiddy said:

I'd say more like "this time next year" away.

With everything else you've seen with our young players, you think Elias and Co. will rush him up here? It's his age 20 season, I'd bet almost anything he starts at Bowie and gets a mid-season promotion to Norfolk at best.

[HakunaSakata]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It absolutely accomplishes something. They add to the offense while also bringing in a pitcher that is perhaps “more of a sure thing”.

There have absolutely been rumors about Seattle looking to move a starter for a young bat.

Post a link. Show me one single rumor suggesting Seattle would trade Woo or Miller. 

[Hallas]

12 minutes ago, bluedog said:

You have no idea if my counter is laughable until you know who the XXs are.

This site has weird valuations, especially of players that had midseason FV upgrades.  I also have a strong suspicion that they're not properly discounting future performance.

[Just Regular]

16 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

It's all about protecting the arm and their investment.

One of the ways I think Clubs look at Arms is if they are bubble-wrapped or if they are fodder.      Fodder is supposed to slag their arms 13 weeks out of 26; bubble-wrap you are trying to keep the hot fastball 10+ years.

I wonder if DL Hall is at a tipping point in his career from one to the other.    De-loading, getting a few high 90's pitches back....this looks like a good moment to deploy for however long it can last.     Its math that an Arm can't sustain for 3000 pitches what it can do for 300.

[ChosenOne21]

11 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Since you guys are talking about this, I'm reminded of an interview that was done with Sig. On the subject of why pitchers are managed differently these days than 20+ years ago, they asked him, "Why are some pitchers like Nolan Ryan able to go out and throw so many innings start to finish and still throw 100 MPH without getting injured?"

Sig basically said he didn't know and that it wasn't a science. 

Ryan was a freak of nature. I don't think there's another pitcher who threw 100 MPH and as many innings per season as him ever.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, ArtVanDelay said:

Why would they trade Cease for that package of players?  I know he’s having a down year but he just finished 2nd in Cy Young and has 2 years of control after this year.  We aren’t getting him for that mediocre group of players unless the White Sox are even dumber than I thought. 

The trade suggestion was Mark DeRosa. If I were the White Sox I’d start at Holiday. But, it ain’t happening. They suggested Kjerstad and Ortiz and BR suggested the package around Mayo.

We already heard Kjerstad is on a list of 3 untouchable players. I have to think that Mayo is probably pretty close to that now. People here are handwringing over the idea of losing Povich (not me).

My “mediocre” package includes our #6, #9, and #11 prospects per MLB.com in the top rated farm system in baseball. Are the evaluators wrong and you are right? Stowers would be the 4th players and he has a .840 OPS at AAA. I think we can agree that he didn’t get a fair shake this year with 30 ABs in a sporadic playing time situation. 
 

If I were the Sox, I’d ask for Holiday, Mayo, or Kjerstad but it’s clearly not happening.

Would the White Sox take this offer? It would depend if they think they can develop Hall & Povich. They are obviously better at developing pitchers than we are currently. Also, They have Norby and Stowers to promote right now to their fans. BTW, I’d give them Ortiz if they prefer him over Norby because it’s obvious that the Orioles aren’t really seeing him as a starter on our MLB club.

I think your snarky response lacked objectivity and was carryover from another subject on a nonOriole topic.

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Roll Tide

[bluedog]

1 minute ago, Gurgi said:

I think Ortiz would be shopped if he wasnt mashing in AAA.  If he was just hitting .270 with limited power like lots of old school SS then I think he would be shopped.  

The fact it seems the kid can actually hit is making the Orioles think maybe we like him in our team more than traded.  

There is shocking amount of talent just in AAA.   I dont know what to do with it all either.  

If Ortiz could hit 12-18 homeruns and play GG caliber defense?  This is a valuable asset.  Not just a throw in for a rental player.  In my unprofessional opinion.  

Maybe we just try to get a better bullpen and call it a day.  This getting a starter might be too rich for my blood.  I dont even want to trade Basallo.    I must have the mental makeup (minus the genius) of Sig.  I like keeping most of my prospects.    I think we have proven we know how to draft them and develop them.  Now we need to play them  by trading away any vets that are blocking our rookies paths.  

Is there a way to realistically get all the AAA talent into productive roles at the big league level? I'm seriously asking.

C Adley

1b Mayo

2b Westy

ss Ortiz (Holliday)

3b Gunnar

RF Hjerstad

CF Mullins (Fabian)

LF Hayes (Cowser)

DH / backup C Basallo

Util Norby

Util Ohearn

With injuries and the likelihood that some of our prospects will struggle in the majors, isn't it good to have that kind of depth? 

[HakunaSakata]

13 minutes ago, bluedog said:

You have no idea if my counter is laughable until you know who the XXs are.

Explain to me why a team in playoff contention would consider a four for one trade? Are four for one really common? I feel like they're not, because most GMs are smart enough to realize that quality trumps quantity 90% of the time. The only exception is if you're trading a very high level player and looking to restock your farm system. 

[bluedog]

3 minutes ago, Hallas said:

This site has weird valuations, especially of players that had midseason FV upgrades.  I also have a strong suspicion that they're not properly discounting future performance.

Granted. I just think the O's have the depth beyond their Top 100 guy to swing a trade like this. If not those 3 guys, then Pham, Beavers, Wagner, McFarland, etc.

[bluedog]

3 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Explain to me why a team in playoff contention would consider a four for one trade? Are four for one really common? I feel like they're not, because most GMs are smart enough to realize that quality trumps quantity 90% of the time. The only exception is if you're trading a very high level player and looking to restock your farm system. 

Go back to the original post. I didn't propose Westburg for ECab. I just said I wouldn't make that trade and asked whether the O's have the depth to swing a trade headlined with Urias instead. I actually am not a big fan of ECab. Just throwing it out for discussion which was apparently a mistake given how passionately you feel about it.

Edited July 28, 2023 by bluedog

[clapdiddy]

7 minutes ago, FlipTheBird said:

With everything else you've seen with our young players, you think Elias and Co. will rush him up here? It's his age 20 season, I'd bet almost anything he starts at Bowie and gets a mid-season promotion to Norfolk at best.

I could see your scenario playing out, but if he tears up Bowie the rest of this season, there's no need to send him back there.

He could start in Norfolk next spring and be up in a couple of months if he's still hitting. 

[HakunaSakata]

1 minute ago, bluedog said:

Go back to the original post. I didn't propose Westburg for ECab. I just said I wouldn't make that trade and asked whether the O's have the depth to swing a trade headlined with Urias instead. I actually am not a big fan of ECab. Just throwing it out for discussion which was apparently a mistake given how passionately you feel about it.

I was just trying to point out that Cabrera is still a very young and valuable commodity. He has a very limited MLB resume so you really have to look past the MLB numbers and take the talent / upside into consideration too. If he and Westburg were still both in the minors I imagine they would be ranked very similarly as prospects. 

[bluedog]

5 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Are four for one really common? I feel like they're not, because most GMs are smart enough to realize that quality trumps quantity 90% of the time. 

You mean like this one??

https://www.mlb.com/news/jorge-lopez-traded-by-orioles-to-twins

Contending team - check

Contender trades all star for 4 prospects - check

I guess Elias isn't smart enough to know your quality over quantity rule.

[HakunaSakata]

1 minute ago, bluedog said:

You mean like this one??

https://www.mlb.com/news/jorge-lopez-traded-by-orioles-to-twins

Contending team - check

Contender trades all star for 4 prospects - check

I guess Elias isn't smart enough to know your quality over quantity rule.

You honestly think J.Lopez is a comparable comp to E.Cabrera? Show me a recent trade where a young top 10 prospect (that's what Cabrera was last season) was traded for four players. 

[bluedog]

1 minute ago, HakunaSakata said:

I was just trying to point out that Cabrera is still a very young and valuable commodity. He has a very limited MLB resume so you really have to look past the MLB numbers and take the talent / upside into consideration too. If he and Westburg were still both in the minors I imagine they would be ranked very similarly as prospects. 

Okay I can agree with that. In fact I'll go one better - SP prospects tend to be overvalued relative to positional players I think. I bet it would be harder to get the fish to do a 1 for 1 swap if they were still both prospects.

But I think some of the shine is off ECab based on how he's pitched this year. If the fish were to pick up a better option (Verlander with the Mets eating all the salary?) they might move on from ECab for the right package - especially if it included a major league starter who filled a position of need. The fish are dead last in WAR from 3b (-2.3) and could use an upgrade there.