Astros Series

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I wouldn’t put anything past the cheaters… I mean Astros. Who knows what they have planned to gain a competitive advantage? The new batters eye could be just an innocent/honest adjustment OR … You never know with them.

All teams cheat to some degree.

 

[Malike]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

All teams cheat to some degree.

 

Most not to the point of it feeling so dirty that they had a player be a whistle-blower.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Malike said:

Most not to the point of it feeling so dirty that they had a player be a whistle-blower.

 

7 minutes ago, Malike said:

Most not to the point of it feeling so dirty that they had a player be a whistle-blower.

A player that just happened to hold a grudge and was playing for a division rival.

He wasn't some heroic whistleblower.

[Bemorewins]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

All teams cheat to some degree.

 

As much as the Astros have been known to do?

[Malike]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

A player that just happened to hold a grudge and was playing for a division rival.

He wasn't some heroic whistleblower.

There were two players if I recall. It was a much bigger deal than a guy on second trying to steal signs. They fired the GM and Manager, this wasn't something every team was doing.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

As much as the Astros have been known to do?

Not even sure what you mean by this?

All teams had players using Steroids, HGH and Greenies.

All teams have had players applying foreign substances to the ball.

Teams have been stealing signs and relaying them to their players for over a century.

Ty Cobb in 1926:

Quote

There is another form of sign stealing which is reprehensible and should be so regarded. That is where mechanical devices worked from outside sources, such as the use of field glasses, mirrors and so on, are used… Signal-tipping on the fields is not against the rules, while the use of outside devices is against all the laws of baseball and the playing rules. It is obviously unfair.”

Baseball has long glorified cheating.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Malike said:

There were two players if I recall. It was a much bigger deal than a guy on second trying to steal signs. They fired the GM and Manager, this wasn't something every team was doing.

They were the sacrificial goat to appease the fanbase.

Have to give the masses their pound of flesh once they get riled up.

And as I just posted, outsiders stealing signs wasn't new.

The shot heard round the world anyone?

[Malike]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Not even sure what you mean by this?

All teams had players using Steroids, HGH and Greenies.

All teams have had players applying foreign substances to the ball.

Teams have been stealing signs and relaying them to their players for over a century.

Ty Cobb in 1926:

Baseball has long glorified cheating.

The Astros took sign stealing to a whole nother level, don't try and diminish it. People were fired, the team was fined millions of dollars and they were all complicit. It prompted the pitch comm system, it wasn't simply trying to steal signs from 2B, they were using video monitors and relaying information to a smartwatch in the dugout to relay signs to the batter.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Malike said:

The Astros took sign stealing to a whole nother level, don't try and diminish it. People were fired, the team was fined millions of dollars and they were all complicit. It prompted the pitch comm system, it wasn't simply trying to steal signs from 2B, they were using video monitors and relaying information to a smartwatch in the dugout to relay signs to the batter.

Oh geez not this again.

It's like the steroid and spider tack all over.

Are you saying it's fine to cheat as long as you aren't too good at it?

You can cheat a little, that's fine...but don't get too big an advantage!  But we won't tell you where the line is.

70's steroids, those are fine.  But don't go getting high end stuff that's custom made!  That's too much!

Bullfrog and resin?  Go for it!  But don't use that Spidertack, it's too sticky!

Got a guy in the stands relying signs?  That's A-Ok!  But don't get too fancy with that modern technology!

 

Cheating is cheating and folks that laugh at Bartolo Colon using steroids while complaining about Bonds just confuse the heck out of me.

 

[Malike]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Oh geez not this again.

It's like the steroid and spider tack all over.

Are you saying it's fine to cheat as long as you aren't too good at it?

You can cheat a little, that's fine...but don't get too big an advantage!  But we won't tell you where the line is.

70's steroids, those are fine.  But don't go getting high end stuff that's custom made!  That's too much!

Bullfrog and resin?  Go for it!  But don't use that Spidertack, it's too sticky!

Got a guy in the stands relying signs?  That's A-Ok!  But don't get too fancy with that modern technology!

 

Cheating is cheating and folks that laugh at Bartolo Colon using steroids while complaining about Bonds just confuse the heck out of me.

 

I'm not saying it's fine to cheat. If you are on 2B and the opposing team isn't switching their signs, then whatever. It's different to have a full-time employee sitting at a monitor and then using technology to relay that information to the dugout so the proper sign can be sent to the coaches to relay to the batter.

Tons of bad players took steroids. If steroids are supposed to teach people how to hit, then they were an epic failure. McGuire hit 49 HR's as a string bean in his rookie year, what did steroids do for him? Let him hit the ball 460 feet instead of 420? Steroids are a bad argument, it didn't help bad players.

If a mediocre hitter knows he's getting a fastball, he can hit it. If he knows he's getting a slider he can spit on it if it's not a hanger. Pitchers should not be doctoring the ball, I don't think anyone would agree that is a good thing and now they ensure that it isn't a thing.

You also know it's not okay for a guy in the stands relaying signs, but again, who got caught for that and was fired, fined, and suspended from managing? The league never called the Jays about that, MLB said they never received a complaint from any club.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Malike said:

 

You also know it's not okay for a guy in the stands relaying signs, but again, who got caught for that and was fired, fined, and suspended from managing? The league never called the Jays about that, MLB said they never received a complaint from any club.

You are more trusting than I am.

I think the difference here is that with Fiers the story went public and MLB had to do something.  We have evidence that other teams over the last 120 years have done similar things.

MLB has a history of not caring until the fans find out and get upset.  I'd say the Black Sox even fall under that.

[Roy Firestone]

2 hours ago, IllinoisOsFan said:

Astros fell asleep in their last two series against 100 loss teams. I expect them to be locked in for our arrival. I hate the matchup, they have disciplined hitting and Verlander is Verlander. 

Except he's 40, his velocity is slightly down and he had a brief , mild injury that could limit  his innings tonight...

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

10 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

Except he's 40, his velocity is slightly down and he had a brief , mild injury that could limit  his innings tonight...

And Verlander has given up 7 home runs in 20 innings pitched this month. Doesn’t mean Verlander won’t be on tonight, but he’s been hittable recently. 

[Jim'sKid26]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

All teams cheat to some degree.

 

"Can_of_Corn, what an ugly thing to say. I abhor ugliness. Does this mean we're not friends anymore? You know, Can_of_Corn, if I thought you weren't my friend, I just don't think I could bear it."

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

"Can_of_Corn, what an ugly thing to say. I abhor ugliness. Does this mean we're not friends anymore? You know, Can_of_Corn, if I thought you weren't my friend, I just don't think I could bear it."

 

I don't believe in friendship.