If Elias told Holliday right now that he was in line to play 2B/backup CF?

[Jagwar]

And he'll be the emergency catcher. 

[wildcard]

Here is why I am interested in having Holliday backup Mullins in CF.

1) McKenna has been backing  up CF.   But he is out of option and I believe with the talent that is coming up from the minors Elias can use that roster spot for some one else.  If he stays on the 40 man he has to stay on the 26 man roster or be DFA'd to get to minors.   He may not make it through waivers.  I don't think he makes it through the off season on the 40 man roster.

2) Hicks has been the backup CF since he joined the O's.   I would like someone faster to backup Mullins.

3) Cowser is a CF in AAA.  But we have not seen him play well offensively or defensively in the majors yet.

3) Mullins  OPS  for the last two years has been 721.   That is 1012 at bats.   As he said himself recently he makes him living with his legs.   And he had two injuries to his legs this season.   I think the O's can use some backup in CF.  I hope Mullins is back to his 30/30 ways next year.  But I would not bet the O's chances at the WS on it.

4) What I have seen and heard about Holliday is he is fast and has great baseball instincts.

Can Holliday be the 2B/backup CF by June after play those position in ST and AAA ?  That is what I am asking the OH. 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by wildcard

[CaptainRedbeard]

Defensively Holliday could handle 2B no problem and he played there some in the minors this year. He probably could play CF but it would require a lot of work and at this point in his career I don’t think they would divert his attention from progressing at the plate and as an infielder unless they were converting him to the OF full time. 

Offensively, Jackson Holliday is going to be amazing. But I think people have lost sight of the fact that he has under 100 PA in AAA. In that time he had continued great plate discipline but not a lot of power.

Holliday could easily make big strides in the offseason and come into camp in a position where it doesn’t make sense to spend more time in AAA. He’s likely going to continue to develop a lot physically at his age. He almost certainly will not need extended time in AAA, and could likely have held his own if called up in September of 2023. But I think there’s a decent chance that the optimal time for him to make a smooth transition from AAA to MLB is not on Opening Day. 

[Big Al]

I don’t think he should be told anything directly. It should be understood, that if he has a very strong spring training, he has a good chance of starting the season at second base in Baltimore. Let an outfielder back up Mullins. 

[RZNJ]

49 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Here is why I am interested in having Holliday backup Mullins in CF.

1) McKenna has been backing  up CF.   But he is out of option and I believe with the talent that is coming up from the minors Elias can use that roster spot for some one else.  If he stays on the 40 man he has to stay on the 26 man roster or be DFA'd to get to minors.   He may not make it through waivers.  I don't think he makes it through the off season on the 40 man roster.

2) Hicks has been the backup CF since he joined the O's.   I would like someone faster to backup Mullins.

3) Cowser is a CF in AAA.  But we have not seen him play well offensively or defensively in the majors yet.

3) Mullins  OPS  for the last two years has been 721.   That is 1012 at bats.   As he said himself recently he makes him living with his legs.   And he had two injuries to his legs this season.   I think the O's can use some backup in CF.  I hope Mullins is back to his 30/30 ways next year.  But I would not bet the O's chances at the WS on it.

4) What I have seen and heard about Holliday is he is fast and has great baseball instincts.

Can Holliday be the 2B/backup CF by June after play those position in ST and AAA ?  That is what I am asking the OH. 

 

 

I think the answer is anything is possible but it’s extremely unlikely that he’ll be the backup CF anytime in 2024.   As Captain said, if you see Holliday in CF it’s because he’s being converted there full time which is unlikely at this point.   
 

As for backup CF, you have McKenna, Hicks, and Mateo depending on who comes back.  In the minors, Cowser, Beavers, and Haskins are possibles.   Just because Holliday is fast doesn’t mean he’ll be a good CF.  Is he faster than Mateo, Cowser, Haskins, or Beavers?

Having said all this, depending on Westburg, Mayo, and Ortiz, CF for Holliday is something I could see as being discussed at some point in the future.  I just don’t expect anything concrete heading into 2024.

Edited October 16, 2023 by RZNJ

[foxfield]

Robin Yount moved from SS to CF and it turned out ok for him. Not saying that Holliday is going to be a hall of famer in the OF but that is the type of situation you are proposing. 
 

If Holliday plays CF and…is good…wouldn’t it be hard to not keep him there?

[DirtyBird]

1 hour ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Defensively Holliday could handle 2B no problem and he played there some in the minors this year. He probably could play CF but it would require a lot of work and at this point in his career I don’t think they would divert his attention from progressing at the plate and as an infielder unless they were converting him to the OF full time. 

How much work does it require? It’s literally nothing more than reading balls off the bat. And these guys do this every day shagging balls during batting practice.

[Moose Milligan]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

Can he create a rock so big that he himself can’t lift it?

He can lift any rock. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

Can he create a rock so big that he himself can’t lift it?

When he creates it he isn't strong enough to lift it but if he then tries to lift it he's strong enough.

[forphase1]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

As for backup CF, you have McKenna, Hicks, and Mateo depending on who comes back.  

I really hope not.  I'd love to see at least 2 of those not on the roster next year,  if not all 3 gone.   

[Moose Milligan]

I’ve gotta say, I’m already exhausted of the hand wringing in regards to where Jackson Holliday is going to end up standing on the diamond when on defense. 

[RZNJ]

30 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

I really hope not.  I'd love to see at least 2 of those not on the roster next year,  if not all 3 gone.   

They make sense as bench players.   Doubtful they have a bench comprised of Cowser, Ortiz, and Norby.

[forphase1]

22 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

They make sense as bench players.   Doubtful they have a bench comprised of Cowser, Ortiz, and Norby.

First, you are talking about backup to Mullins in your post.  Not sure that Ortiz or Norby should be part of that discussion.

McKenna will be out of options, and frankly I don't think he's good enough to have stuck on the MLB roster all year.  Him having options was one of the only reasons he was valuable this past year as a AAAA type player, we could bounce him up and down as needed.  Without that flexibility he's not worth keeping around IMO.

Mateo I don't want on the team at all for reasons I've stated many times this last year.  Yes, if Hyde would simply let him be a bench player, then I'd be ok with it.  But we all know he's going to start WAY more than his bat deserves if he's on the team.  Plus the idea of him backing up Mullins isn't really a good one....we've seen no evidence really that he'd be a great CF, just because he's blazing fast.  He doesn't hit and his defense seriously regressed.  I'd rather see someone with a better bat fill his spot.

Hicks - I don't think he has the wheels any more to be a good backup for Mullins.  Yeah, the bat played pretty well this year, but again, if we are talking about Mullins backup I don't like Hicks in that role.  His defense in CF just isn't good enough.  If we are going to put up with that kind of a defender in CF, then he'd better REALLY hit, and hit better than Hicks did.  I do think it likely we resign him as he's going to be incredibly cheap, but I'd rather if we didn't.  But, of the 3, I'd probably be most OK with having Hicks around.

 

[Frobby]

8 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I’ve gotta say, I’m already exhausted of the hand wringing in regards to where Jackson Holliday is going to end up standing on the diamond when on defense. 

It’s all okay, just so long as he wins the Triple Crown and bats .400 once he’s up.  

[SemperFi]

10 hours ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Defensively Holliday could handle 2B no problem and he played there some in the minors this year. He probably could play CF but it would require a lot of work and at this point in his career I don’t think they would divert his attention from progressing at the plate and as an infielder unless they were converting him to the OF full time. 

Offensively, Jackson Holliday is going to be amazing. But I think people have lost sight of the fact that he has under 100 PA in AAA. In that time he had continued great plate discipline but not a lot of power.

Holliday could easily make big strides in the offseason and come into camp in a position where it doesn’t make sense to spend more time in AAA. He’s likely going to continue to develop a lot physically at his age. He almost certainly will not need extended time in AAA, and could likely have held his own if called up in September of 2023. But I think there’s a decent chance that the optimal time for him to make a smooth transition from AAA to MLB is not on Opening Day. 

I also don't think they are thinking about him in the outfield, certainly not long term as Bradfield was picked for a reason.  The skill set Bradfield brings is exactly what Elias/Hyde value in CF at Camden Yards.  Elite speed to get into the power alleys and make the other OF's better, ability to come in on the ball-nothing falls in front of him.  On offense, assuming his OB skills translate-how much fun is it going to be to watch Holliday hit in back of him-he could hit .340 with the right side open that much.