Why Kyle Gibson might be resigned

[ledzepp8]

19 hours ago, 7Mo said:

192 innings certainly has value. But that's spending roughly $10M to tell Irvin, Wells and DL Hall that they're likely in the bullpen, where they don't want to be. 

I think they bring in a guy for significantly less than $10M who they think they can fix who could start, but without the commitment so there's a fair competition between that signee and the 3 above. 

I don't necessarily want them to resign Gibson, but would it be a bad thing to have Irvin, Wells, and Hall in the BP? That would undoubtedly make the pen better. It would obviously be better than trotting out the Vespi, Gillaspie, and Akins of the world.

[7Mo]

53 minutes ago, ledzepp8 said:

I don't necessarily want them to resign Gibson, but would it be a bad thing to have Irvin, Wells, and Hall in the BP? That would undoubtedly make the pen better. It would obviously be better than trotting out the Vespi, Gillaspie, and Akins of the world.

I agree that those guys could be weapons in the pen but previous Elias moves make me guess they'll be given every opportunity to start. 

[oriole]

9 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

I don’t think Elias cares where they guys want to be! Hall and Wells are best suited in the pen. Hall because he can throw less pitches and therefore use his best arsenal. That avoids the walks and the hits against his lesser stuff. Wells has hit a wall 2 straight years and there is no reason to believe it won’t happen again. Kremer is a solid 4th or 5th starter and the idea from @oriolethat he’s no more than depth is laughable. Irvin is not better than Kremer but, I’d be fine with a competition for the last spot or two. 

Means is one season before free agency. So he may be dealt this offseason or mid season if they stick to their guns about the plan that Angelos spit out. If they are handing out big money it’s to guys like Gunnar ….not Means

My assertion that Kremer should be the 6th starter isn’t a knock on him. He’s a good back end guy. I think he should be the 6th starter because there is room for improvement and the team has the means to do so. There is no true ace on this team so I think having a rotation full of mid-rotation guys is a similar balance as having your typical ace and a #5 type of rotation. 

[NCRaven]

20 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

+1, resigning Gibson would be a disappointment. I like the idea to target an older guy to help limit the contract length but I'd like us to go for a higher quality guy. Sonny Gray seems like the perfect target IMO.

I like the idea, just wish he was a lefty.

[Morgan423]

1 hour ago, oriole said:

So I think having a rotation full of mid-rotation guys is a similar balance as having your typical ace and a #5 type of rotation. 

2012 - 2016 say hi.

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, oriole said:

My assertion that Kremer should be the 6th starter isn’t a knock on him. He’s a good back end guy. I think he should be the 6th starter because there is room for improvement and the team has the means to do so. There is no true ace on this team so I think having a rotation full of mid-rotation guys is a similar balance as having your typical ace and a #5 type of rotation. 

Do we have the means? It needs to be made available to Elias. We don’t know how much and when. Elias sure didn’t appear to have much to work with last season. If he gets a slight bump maybe to a 1 year $13 million what does that buy? We went from $7,000,000 (6 plus the 1 million buyout paid out this year) to $10,000,000 to Gibson. So $13-15 sounds right. Who can you get for that?

[oriole]

8 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Do we have the means? It needs to be made available to Elias. We don’t know how much and when. Elias sure didn’t appear to have much to work with last season. If he gets a slight bump maybe to a 1 year $13 million what does that buy? We went from $7,000,000 (6 plus the 1 million buyout paid out this year) to $10,000,000 to Gibson. So $13-15 sounds right. Who can you get for that?

I don’t know what kind of constraints he is working with. But assuming no Frazier and Gibson salaries, a slight bump in payroll, plus hopefully some guys getting into arbitration are traded or DFA like Mateo, Urias, or a couple bullpen pieces…that should leave some room to make a move. 
 

Im very aware that Angelos is gonna cry poor, but I have hope that he’ll do right and give the green light to dip into the mid-market of free agency. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if this doesn’t happen, but it’s early in the O’s offseason and I’m not totally jaded yet.

 

Then there are the prospects…Cowser, Kjerstad, Stowers, Beavers, Bradfield…that’s a lot of left handed outfield options that’ll be up in the next 2-3 years (sooner for some). That’s redundancy and a perfect way to make some upgrades. That’s not even counting some other prospects that don’t really have a spot here like Norby, Ortiz, Mayo, and Vavra. Obviously I’m not saying trade all of these guys, but it’s a list for clubs with some controllable pitching to pick from and it wouldn’t hinder the O’s big league club much whatsoever. 
 

Anyways, a mid market free agent pitcher and a trade for a mid rotation guy. Totally doable.

[Bemorewins]

38 minutes ago, oriole said:

I don’t know what kind of constraints he is working with. But assuming no Frazier and Gibson salaries, a slight bump in payroll, plus hopefully some guys getting into arbitration are traded or DFA like Mateo, Urias, or a couple bullpen pieces…that should leave some room to make a move. 
 

Im very aware that Angelos is gonna cry poor, but I have hope that he’ll do right and give the green light to dip into the mid-market of free agency. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if this doesn’t happen, but it’s early in the O’s offseason and I’m not totally jaded yet.

 

Then there are the prospects…Cowser, Kjerstad, Stowers, Beavers, Bradfield…that’s a lot of left handed outfield options that’ll be up in the next 2-3 years (sooner for some). That’s redundancy and a perfect way to make some upgrades. That’s not even counting some other prospects that don’t really have a spot here like Norby, Ortiz, Mayo, and Vavra. Obviously I’m not saying trade all of these guys, but it’s a list for clubs with some controllable pitching to pick from and it wouldn’t hinder the O’s big league club much whatsoever. 
 

Anyways, a mid market free agent pitcher and a trade for a mid rotation guy. Totally doable.

I hold a similar hope not many how small/slim it may be…lol

A couple of questions for you:

1) Is Stowers still considered a prospect by any standard of measurement? He will be 26 next year. I haven’t been able to find many if any 26 year old considered to be held with prospect status.

2) Is Varva a Major Leaguer or more of a AAAA guy? 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I hold a similar hope not many how small/slim it may be…lol

A couple of questions for you:

1) Is Stowers still considered a prospect by any standard of measurement? He will be 26 next year. I haven’t been able to find many if any 26 year old considered to be held with prospect status.

2) Is Varva a Major Leaguer or more of a AAAA guy? 

I think it is telling that Stowers had more MLB at bats in 2022 than he did in 2023.

[G54377]

I would hope we can replace Gibson's innings with someone better. If we are serious about winning a championship we will.

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, oriole said:

I don’t know what kind of constraints he is working with. But assuming no Frazier and Gibson salaries, a slight bump in payroll, plus hopefully some guys getting into arbitration are traded or DFA like Mateo, Urias, or a couple bullpen pieces…that should leave some room to make a move. 
 

Im very aware that Angelos is gonna cry poor, but I have hope that he’ll do right and give the green light to dip into the mid-market of free agency. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if this doesn’t happen, but it’s early in the O’s offseason and I’m not totally jaded yet.

 

Then there are the prospects…Cowser, Kjerstad, Stowers, Beavers, Bradfield…that’s a lot of left handed outfield options that’ll be up in the next 2-3 years (sooner for some). That’s redundancy and a perfect way to make some upgrades. That’s not even counting some other prospects that don’t really have a spot here like Norby, Ortiz, Mayo, and Vavra. Obviously I’m not saying trade all of these guys, but it’s a list for clubs with some controllable pitching to pick from and it wouldn’t hinder the O’s big league club much whatsoever. 
 

Anyways, a mid market free agent pitcher and a trade for a mid rotation guy. Totally doable.

I am totally jaded. 

[Jagwar]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

Do we have the means? It needs to be made available to Elias. We don’t know how much and when. Elias sure didn’t appear to have much to work with last season. If he gets a slight bump maybe to a 1 year $13 million what does that buy? We went from $7,000,000 (6 plus the 1 million buyout paid out this year) to $10,000,000 to Gibson. So $13-15 sounds right. Who can you get for that?

I think the O's need to acquire a true #2-3, and Kremer should be our "Gibson". He went from 125.1 IP to 172.2 IP this season. Perhaps he can take a step forward and show more consistency (he laid turds in Apr and Jun).

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I think the O's need to acquire a true #2-3, and Kremer should be our "Gibson". He went from 125.1 IP to 172.2 IP this season. Perhaps he can take a step forward and show more consistency (he laid turds in Apr and Jun).

And October. 

[Jagwar]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And October. 

Outlier 

[oriole]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

I hold a similar hope not many how small/slim it may be…lol

A couple of questions for you:

1) Is Stowers still considered a prospect by any standard of measurement? He will be 26 next year. I haven’t been able to find many if any 26 year old considered to be held with prospect status.

2) Is Varva a Major Leaguer or more of a AAAA guy? 

It’s true that neither are actual prospects anymore. But they both have had good recent success at AAA, still relatively young, and have yet to have a real good look at the MLB level. They still have enough value that can be solid throw-ins to make a deal happen IMO