Cease vs everyone else

[Sports Guy]

28 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

...and Grissom showed that he could be a MLB starter in 2022. I'm not arguing over who's better, because that's highly subjective, but they are most certainly comparable players. And it's not a stretch to think that most MLB teams would feel the same. 

But at what position did he show he can be a starter? Agreed that in a SSS, he showed a good bat in 2022.

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I disliked Pete Rose, but at 79.6 rWAR, I wouldn’t go so far as to say he was mediocre.  He really did hurt his rate stats by playing about 5 years too long chasing the hits record.  

Pete Rose is the type of guy that if he was the deciding manager, would pick himself for the All-Star game.

[Frobby]

52 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

I specifically said from a hitting perspective. What Grissom did at AAA (with his bat) isn't going to be forgotten because of 75 mehish MLB ABs. And Grissom's poor defense was the reason why the Braves opened the season with Arcia, not his bat. Yes Westburg (right now) is the better defender, but Grissom is two years young which somewhat closes that gap. I also think he's a better pure hitter and has more speed than Westburg. I guarantee you in a Braves Forum they'd be having the opposite argument. 

Why has Grissom not appeared on any top 100 lists in the past?   I assume it’s his bad defense?

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Frobby said:

Why has Grissom not appeared on any top 100 lists in the past?   I assume it’s his bad defense?

Prospect1500 had him around 60th midseason 2022.  So far that’s the only one I could find although I didn’t see a ton of lists and I don’t have access to some of the pay sites.

[Frobby]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Prospect1500 had him around 60th midseason 2022.  So far that’s the only one I could find although I didn’t see a ton of lists and I don’t have access to some of the pay sites.

I just look at the preseason lists from BA, MLB.com and BP that show up on the player’s BB-ref minor league page.  Grissom wasn’t on any of those.  I don’t know anything about him other than what I can see on his stat sheet, but he does look like he should hit okay.  

[Chicago White Sox]

8 hours ago, Pickles said:

So, a package from ATL for Cease floating around twitter right now is Vaughn Grissom, Hurston Waldrep, and Owen Murphy.

I think ChicagoWhiteSoxFan is going to be disappointed.

Vaughan snuck into the top 100 globally before his call up in 2022, but performed poorly in MLB in 23, (admittedly showed well in AAA) and is no longer eligible for prospect rankings.  Joey Ortiz would seem to be more highly valued.

Hurston Waldrep snuck into the top 100 as the 100th prospect for MLB.com this fall.  He like Murphy are both pitchers taken later in the first round; Murphy a prep arm.  The O's don't have a decent comp for either, but neither is seen as a prospect on the level of Kjerstad or Cowser.

What I said several pages ago stands true so far: The White Sox are not going to get a better prospect than Kjerstad and Cowser, and they won't be getting a second piece near the level of Joey Ortiz, and in fact, wouldn 't be surprised to see the best piece they recieve being in Ortiz' general range.

Where is this package floating around?

[HakunaSakata]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Where is this package floating around?

Some rando posted the idea. It has absolutely no legitimate credence. 

 

[Frobby]

24 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

Some rando posted the idea. It has absolutely no legitimate credence. 

 

I wouldn’t write off Aram Leighton as a complete rando.  He’s the host of a podcast called Just Baseball.  I don’t think he’s purporting to float a rumor with that tweet, he’s just floating an idea and asking for reaction.   He certainly has no inside information.  

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Why has Grissom not appeared on any top 100 lists in the past?   I assume it’s his bad defense?

Per Baseball America.  Keep in mind at the beginning of 2022 Grissom was rated the Braves #12 but he had only made it to high A.   By the end of that year, as a 21 yo, he had put up a .798 OPS in the majors and lost rookie eligibility and prospect status along with it.

Scouting Report: “Grissom has showcased impressive contact ability since he joined pro ball, and that continued in 2021. He pairs that natural bat-to-ball ability with a solid understanding of the strike zone, and his walk-to-strikeout rate was one of the best marks in the system. While Grissom possesses solid foundational hitting skills, scouts have been wanting to see him drive the ball for more impact and home run production. He has raw power that shows up more in batting practice, and his top-end exit velocities stack up with some of the better sluggers in the system (113.2 max EV) but some evaluators believe he’ll always hit for more average than power. His slugging numbers progressed as the year went on and he has room to add weight to his frame still, but some scouts note a lack of freedom in his swing that could limit his impact. He’s stretched at shortstop due to limited range and athleticism. He has the arm strength for third and the hands to handle second.“

Edited November 28, 2023 by RZNJ

[Sports Guy]

Bieber, Cease, Glasgow and Burnes are all likely available.  Only Cease gives you multi years.

[Pickles]

18 hours ago, HakunaSakata said:

You made a Pete Rose comparision. Rose's biggested attribute was his ability to hit for average. Grissom hit for a higher average than Westburg last season so technically Grissom was closer to a Pete Rose player profile than Westburg, no? And to add to that Grissom hit .330 at AAA last season versus Westburg's .295. To say that the two aren't at least somewhat comparable prospects from at least a hitting perspective seems pretty ridiculous.

I made a "Pete Rose" comparison because I was looking for somebody who played 2nd/3rd who was an offensive force.  I wan't making a legitimate comparison.  Nothing to do with actually batting average or performance.

You have effectively moved the goalposts.  Nobody said they weren't similar prospects or values.  I simply said Westburg outperformed Grissom in the major leagues last year, and no amount of cherrypicking RBIs or BA changes that.

I actually think Grissom, Westburg, and Ortiz are all similarly valued.  I also think it supports my broader point: The White Sox aren't going to get a second piece on that level.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I made a "Pete Rose" comparison because I was looking for somebody who played 2nd/3rd who was an offensive force.  I wan't making a legitimate comparison.  Nothing to do with actually batting average or performance.

You have effectively moved the goalposts.  Nobody said they weren't similar prospects or values.  I simply said Westburg outperformed Grissom in the major leagues last year, and no amount of cherrypicking RBIs or BA changes that.

I actually think Grissom, Westburg, and Ortiz are all similarly valued.  I also think it supports my broader point: The White Sox aren't going to get a second piece on that level.

I did say I think Westburg would carry more value right now.  Grissom not having a position has to matter, especially if the bat isn’t going to be good enough to justify an OF or DH spot.

Now, if the bat will be, I agree the value is similar but there seems to be some question about that.

[Pickles]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I did say I think Westburg would carry more value right now.  Grissom not having a position has to matter, especially if the bat isn’t going to be good enough to justify an OF or DH spot.

Now, if the bat will be, I agree the value is similar but there seems to be some question about that.

Personally, I'd have Grissom below the other two, solely because of positional concerns, but they're all of a range.

[Chicago White Sox]

Things are heating up per Rosenthal:

Quote

White Sox’s Cease in heavy demand
The lack of controllable starting pitching available in a trade increases the likelihood the White Sox will extract a monster return for right-hander Dylan Cease, who can be retained through salary arbitration for two more seasons.
More than a dozen teams have inquired on Cease, with the Dodgers among the most aggressive, as USA Today’s Bob Nightengale and others have reported. The Dodgers’ projected rotation, at present, consists of Walker Buehler coming off Tommy John surgery, Bobby Miller, Ryan Yarbrough, Emmett Sheehan and Ryan Pepiot.
The Dodgers’ farm system remains strong; they had a trade with the Tigers in place for left-hander Eduardo Rodríguez at the deadline, but the deal collapsed when the pitcher invoked his no-trade rights. They also pursued Cease at that time, according to The Athletic’s Fabian Ardaya.
Cease would have commanded far more than Rodríguez then as a likely two-month rental, and also would command far more now. It remains to be seen which team will have the greatest appetite for such a deal.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

I definitely like the term “monster package”…for some reason it immediately makes me think of Mayo + Kjerstad