Cease vs everyone else

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Too Tall said:

Sorry!!!! But how about some are NEVER wrong?

Yeah, we have a few of them on here.   You want names?  LOL

[Too Tall]

3 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Yeah, we have a few of them on here.   You want names?  LOL

Don't need them!!!!

[sportsfan8703]

We’re just on a different planet than JA. Everyone wants Cease. We’ll have to accept Cole Irvin. 

[BRobinsonfan]

48 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

All you just said there was “he was healthy for a full season”

Nothing you say here should have been unexpected if he was healthy.

You make some fair points, but I would still say he outperformed my expectations for the following reasons. He was coming off a year in which he posted a 5.05 ERA with a 79 ERA+. He turned 35 in 2023 and I think it would be fair to say, because of that, you could reasonably expect some regression. Instead, he had a better ERA+ (87), WHIP (1.318) FIP (4.13) and HR9 (1.1) plus he gave us 192 innings in which he averaged just under 6 innings per start. (The previous season he averaged 5.38 innings per start and this year he averaged 5.81). I think because of his age I was mildly surprised at the season he gave us. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We’re just on a different planet than JA. Everyone wants Cease. We’ll have to accept Cole Irvin. 

I don’t think everyone here wants Cease.  You can find plenty of posts here and in other threads minimizing him.  I would like to have him, if the prospect cost is reasonable.  

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I don’t think everyone here wants Cease.  You can find plenty of posts here and in other threads minimizing him.  I would like to have him, if the prospect cost is reasonable.  

If Elias acquired Cease, everyone would be on board.  Too many people either want him or are sheep and just go with what Elias says.

 

[Sports Guy]

From Rosenthal’s latest:

 

New White Sox general manager Chris Getz is telling clubs he likely will wait to move on right-hander Dylan Cease until after the top free-agent starting pitchers sign, according to major-league sources briefed on the discussions.

Getz could act sooner if he gets an offer to his liking, perhaps from a team such as the Orioles or Reds, who are expected to refrain from the top of the free-agent market. But the advantage of waiting is obvious: Certain teams’ urgency will only increase if they miss out on Yoshinobu Yamamoto, Blake Snell and company. Some clubs face such an acute shortage, they might be in on Cease even if they sign a top free agent.

The Dodgers, for example, need multiple starters. The Cardinals, sources say, remain interested in Cease even after signing Sonny Gray, Kyle Gibson and Lance Lynn. It would be uncharacteristic of the Reds and Orioles to jump the market, and their appetite for Cease is unlikely to diminish if the White Sox wait.

Cease, entering his age-28 season, is under club control for two more years, one more than fellow trade candidates Corbin Burnes, Tyler Glasnow and Shane Bieber. His combined salary in arbitration over the next two seasons likely will be in the $25 million range. Glasnow, entering his age-30 season, will earn $25 million alone in 2024.

The Mariners are another club that potentially could trade a starting pitcher, but they were in the same position at the trade deadline and held tight. The rotation is the team’s strength, reducing the strain on the bullpen and offense and giving the club a high competitive floor.

That said, the Mariners already subtracted two important offensive contributors, declining to give free-agent outfielder Teoscar Hernández a qualifying offer and trading third baseman Eugenio Suárez to the Diamondbacks. Their goal is to find hitters who make better contact and draw more walks. And in a market thin on position players, the best way to do that probably is through a trade.

Only three Mariners position players — center fielder Julio Rodríguez, shortstop J.P. Crawford and catcher Cal Raleigh — appear entrenched for 2024. The team can upgrade in practically every other spot, then move pieces around. The subtractions of Hernández and Suárez created payroll flexibility for other moves.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Sports Guy

[interloper]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If Elias acquired Cease, everyone would be on board.  Too many people either want him or are sheep and just go with what Elias says.

 

It depends on the prospect cost how people view any potential trade. But yeah either way I think most of us would be happy to have him, in a vacuum. 

That said, Elias' biggest trade - Flaherty - was absolutely his worst. I hope he rights that narrative a bit this offseason. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by interloper

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

If Elias acquired Cease, everyone would be on board.  Too many people either want him or are sheep and just go with what Elias says.

 

There are a lot of people who wouldn’t be on board if any of Holliday, Basallo or Mayo were included, and I saw posts saying that Cowser and Kjerstad were too valuable to give up in a Cease trade.  So, it depends who we’re trading for him.  

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

There are a lot of people who wouldn’t be on board if any of Holliday, Basallo or Mayo were included, and I saw posts saying that Cowser and Kjerstad were too valuable to give up in a Cease trade.  So, it depends who we’re trading for him.  

I’m not worried about him trading any of those 3. I guess if that’s on the table, that changes things but I doubt it.

 

[RZNJ]

White Sox board is posting the complete BA write ups on Cowser, Kjerstad, Ortiz and Hall.    They definitely want our guys.

I wouldn’t criticize a deal involving Cowser/Kjerstad + Ortiz but I wouldn’t be happy about it either.   I think that’s a bit too much for Cease.  

[Roll Tide]

49 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

For just 2024 I think Burnes is the better pitcher. And that’s not so much of a knock on Cease, as Burnes is still really good. But Cease is a significantly more valuable asset with 2 years of control so I’d give up more for him than Cease.

Burnes is also showing red flags of consistent decline which would be concerning if the intent were to sign one to a mega deal, but that won’t be the intent. He’s still at a high enough level that he should be quite good in 2024. 

Yeah but his WHIP and ERA are extremely consistent. You have to ignore the extra stuff when there is a track record He’s .25 better than Cease despite your concerns. He give up 6.5 hits in 9 innings for four straight years. Without digging deeper perhaps he’s pitching over throwing. Less Ks likely means more pitch efficiency.

[Roll Tide]

Per CBS 

 

Quote

MLB Rumors….White Sox May Wait To Trade Dylan Cease Until After Free Agents Are Off The Board.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

10 hours ago, RZNJ said:

@Chicago White Sox

 

How can you say this “Norby is younger than Ortiz, but doesn’t fit the style of play that Getz seems to be prioritizing.  I’d be shocked if he was the #2 piece in a Cease trade.”  
 

And then predict and endorse a trade where Michael Busch is the 1st or 2nd piece.

Baseball America

“The Dodgers drafted Busch as a first baseman and attempted to turn him into a second baseman, but his lack of range makes him a liability without the help of a shift. He’s a below-average runner who lacks quickness and agility and is a below-average defender at the keystone. He began playing third base in 2023 and started most of his games there in Triple-A and the majors. He shows a good feel for body positioning and reading angles at the hot corner but is still a below-average defender learning the nuances of the position. Busch has also seen time in left field, but his best position remains first base. He has below-average arm strength.“

Because I think Busch is a potential impact bat even if at 1B and I value LH power very highly given our ballpark.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Chicago White Sox

[RZNJ]

19 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Because I think Busch is a potential impact bat even if at 1B and I value LH power very highly given our ballpark.

Right, but Busch isn’t a defensive plus player anywhere and Andy Pages is maybe an average defensive corner IF so this doesn’t fit the type of player you originally said you were looking for.   As someone on your own board pointed out, you have Vaughn at 1B and Eloy at DH.  Get Busch and someone plays at a position they are deficient at.

Also, you kept bringing up Ortiz age as if the clock was about to run out on him being valuable and now you have Busch who’s 7 months older than Ortiz.  Just strikes me as funny.

No worries about a 25 yo who put up numbers in the Pacific Coast League?

Part of me hopes you get that package.  I think the key will be Sheehan.

Edited December 1, 2023 by RZNJ