Means behind schedule and won't be ready by opening day

[Tony-OH]

Once they reshut him down last Fall I knew there was something more wrong with Means. the fact the Orioles knew Means' issues and Bradish's injury since January really makes me wonder why they get more aggressive getting another starter besides Burnes.

You spend top prospects to get Burnes and know you are have two starters they may not be ready or ever ready for 2024? 

[interloper]

At least with Means is just sounds like caution/timing being off. It doesn't appear he had any further setback since last year, just that they forced him to delay when he starts back up again. 

For now I'll choose to remain optimistic about Means returning by late May or so. 

But the Orioles need to find some guys to support this pitching staff until then. 

[Tony-OH]

12 minutes ago, interloper said:

At least with Means is just sounds like caution/timing being off. It doesn't appear he had any further setback since last year, just that they forced him to delay when he starts back up again. 

For now I'll choose to remain optimistic about Means returning by late May or so. 

But the Orioles need to find some guys to support this pitching staff until then. 

I don't feel good at all. He was shutdown last September after getting started back up and now is not ready. Not good.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

I don't feel good at all. He was shutdown last September after getting started back up and now is not ready. Not good.

Sure, but he's not ready because of that shutdown. At least for now there doesn't appear to be any "he started up and we shut him back down again" talk. He just hasn't started up yet. 

So we'll see what happens when they let him start throwing I guess. 

Edited February 15 by interloper

[Keygans]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

I don't feel good at all. He was shutdown last September after getting started back up and now is not ready. Not good.

I agree this is not good.  It makes me think we get another starter…   I mean injuries happen, but normally DURING the season.    Can’t go into April down 2 starters IMO.   
 

Burnes 

grayson

kremer

???

!!!

[Tony-OH]

17 minutes ago, interloper said:

Sure, but he's not ready because of that shutdown. At least for now there doesn't appear to be any "he started up and we shut him back down again" talk. He just hasn't started up yet. 

So we'll see what happens when they let him start throwing I guess. 

But he was shutdown in September. He had an entire offseason to be ready. The fact that he's not ready for full go by February, is not good at all in my opinion. 

[interloper]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

But he was shutdown in September. He had an entire offseason to be ready. The fact that he's not ready for full go by February, is not good at all in my opinion. 

None of it is good. I'm simply saying this was probably the Orioles' plan as soon as it happened in September, to have him delay his ramp up in the offseason. Not due to anything additional that happened.

But I'm splitting hairs and yeah it sucks big time lol

[Tony-OH]

17 minutes ago, Keygans said:

I agree this is not good.  It makes me think we get another starter…   I mean injuries happen, but normally DURING the season.    Can’t go into April down 2 starters IMO.   
 

Burnes 

grayson

kremer

???

!!!

Within current option, you have to imagine Wells and Irvin are now the 4th and 5th starters in April at the very least. This off course weakens the bullpen that was weakened with the trade of Hall. 

 

[Frobby]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

Within current option, you have to imagine Wells and Irvin are now the 4th and 5th starters in April at the very least. This off course weakens the bullpen that was weakened with the trade of Hall. 

 

The fact that Elias hasn’t acquired another pitcher by now suggests that he’s being forthright that he expects both Bradish and Means back before too long.   We are only learning about these issues now, but Elias presumably has known about them for months.  I think he would have done more if he thought these were something more than temporary setbacks.   And he’s a cautious guy, not inclined to assume everything will go perfectly.  So, I’m taking some comfort in the fact that he doesn’t seem too worried.  

I think we can cover the bullpen for several weeks if we need to use Wells and Irvin as starters to begin the year.  I sure wouldn’t want to do it for six months, though.  
 

[Orioles West]

41 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Once they reshut him down last Fall I knew there was something more wrong with Means. the fact the Orioles knew Means' issues and Bradish's injury since January really makes me wonder why they get more aggressive getting another starter besides Burnes.

You spend top prospects to get Burnes and know you are have two starters they may not be ready or ever ready for 2024? 

A very fair point — Burnes at the time looked like the “all in” move for a run in 2024. However, knowing that Means is still a question mark, because they can’t know how much work he will need until he starts working, and the Bradish hit, I would have thought Elias would still be looking for at least one more higher end starter. Burnes isn’t the icing on the cake anymore, and he can only start once every four or five days.

[dystopia]

44 minutes ago, interloper said:

At least with Means is just sounds like caution/timing being off. It doesn't appear he had any further setback since last year, just that they forced him to delay when he starts back up again. 

For now I'll choose to remain optimistic about Means returning by late May or so. 

But the Orioles need to find some guys to support this pitching staff until then. 

Late May? That’s you being optimistic? I hate to see your pessimistic take. 

[interloper]

Just now, dystopia said:

Late May? That’s you being optimistic? I hate to see your pessimistic take. 

The pessimistic take is that Means is just injury prone now between his elbow and his shoulder and he's a long shot to give you 100 innings in a season. 

So, yeah, I think mid-late May as the latest timetable for a return is fairly optimistic. It could be early May but let's see where he's at once he starts throwing. 

[Aristotelian]

57 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Once they reshut him down last Fall I knew there was something more wrong with Means. the fact the Orioles knew Means' issues and Bradish's injury since January really makes me wonder why they get more aggressive getting another starter besides Burnes.

You spend top prospects to get Burnes and know you are have two starters they may not be ready or ever ready for 2024? 

I was wondering before. Now I am 100% convinced that the Bradish injury was a factor in pulling the trigger for Burnes.

[Tony-OH]

Hyde said he does not expect Means to make opening day so all this "might stuff" can be eliminated for our thought process. Even if there was a sliver of a chance Means was able to go by OD, Hyde would not have said that.

I just don't have a lot of faith that after a whole offseason Means is not ready in spring training. I don't buy this whole January ramp up thing gets you started for the season. Hell, it cost us a Bradish injury and Means is not even ready for it after being shutdown since September. 

The recovery of their pitchers and timelines have been very long and reinjuries seem to be common under the Orioles medical/rehab system. Last year Tate never could pitch effectively, Seth Johnson took forever, and Carter Baumler took a long time then hurt himself again, was shut down, then started back up, then shut down again in Arizona Fall League.

The Orioles are good at a lot of things, but rehabbing pitchers have not exactly been a strength of theirs. 

[Keygans]

49 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The fact that Elias hasn’t acquired another pitcher by now suggests that he’s being forthright that he expects both Bradish and Means back before too long.   We are only learning about these issues now, but Elias presumably has known about them for months.  I think he would have done more if he thought these were something more than temporary setbacks.   And he’s a cautious guy, not inclined to assume everything will go perfectly.  So, I’m taking some comfort in the fact that he doesn’t seem too worried.  

I think we can cover the bullpen for several weeks if we need to use Wells and Irvin as starters to begin the year.  I sure wouldn’t want to do it for six months, though.  
 

I agree with Wells and Irvin.   However,  I think this should make everyone’s spider senses go off and strongly consider another SP addition.   God forbid someone else gets hurt like Kremer and then we go from “all in with Burnes” to “crap we got Burnt” in less than a few weeks…